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  • Jiff64138 - Open Source Ecology Forums
    General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/8/Jiff64138 (2016-04-30)
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  • Resource Development Introduction - Open Source Ecology Forums
    sector business model What are you thinking of along these lines These are some that occur to me 1 Make and sell tools at a profit As I understand it there is at present only one product that is market ready the CEB maker I am on the island of Kauai 60K permanent residents I assume it would require a broader set of tools products for such a business plan to succeed in such a small market Small scale agriculture community gardens are taking off at the moment on the island A friend who teaches at the local community college refers to this a the year of the community garden Mulcher hammermill mini tractor orchard based tools like auger and tree handler would be good Have you given any thought to chain saws brush cutters 2 A subscription based facility along the lines of Hackerspace Techshop etc Users would pay for access to the tools The opportunity to participate in OSE could be an incentive Perhaps now with the large response to the TED talk the market value of the OSE brand could make such a business model viable In time and with the proliferation of OSE designs products and users a toolset that is geared towards the creation customization and repair of OSE tools would be valuable For example someone who had a large tree fall on their microtractor might wish for access to the toolset to rebuild the front half 3 An educational model Sell the training This could perhaps be done in partnership with local schools This would lean more in the direction of the funded non profit Fab Lab approach but could still be done as a private business In particular there are a great many home school families here on the island and I have several friends who are making a living providing specialized services for them This might also work as an outsourced class for private schools All of the above are based on the assumption of duplicating the fabrication facility and finding a way to make that pay I have been reading the website but am still not clear on what exists to be duplicated I m not talking about the 50 tools I m clear on that But what subset of those tools exists now in Missouri that is being used to manufacture product prototypes Is there anything that is in the direction of a bill of materials for replicating that Vote Up 0 Vote Down ARGHaynes May 2011 Permalink tcobb48 I am assuming that by A subscription based facility along the lines of Hackerspace Techshop etc Users would pay for access to the tools you are referring to physical tools Also I know there is a long term plan to develop an open source curriculum for the GVCS The idea is all the information is free but things like products or teaching could be dispensed at the will of individuals assuming they remain compliant to the license Right now there are

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/83/resource-development-introduction (2016-04-30)
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  • tcobb48 - Open Source Ecology Forums
    General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/261/tcobb48 (2016-04-30)
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  • GVCS Technical Development - Open Source Ecology Forums
    0 CAD draftsman needed 7 comments Most recent by 4sc4n10 October 2011 GVCS Technical Development Comments 1 Views 485 Follows 2 Votes 0 CEB Press Manufacturing Instruction inconsistencies 2 comments Most recent by mjn September 2011 GVCS Technical Development Comments 10 Views 1 6K Follows 0 Votes 0 XYZ table status and design 11 comments Most recent by Bastelmike August 2011 GVCS Technical Development Comments 8 Views 685 Follows 1 Votes 0 Systemic approach to food production 9 comments Most recent by ARGHaynes June 2011 GVCS Technical Development Comments 7 Views 772 Follows 0 Votes 0 CEB press controller source code 8 comments Most recent by AndrewBuck May 2011 GVCS Technical Development Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership Categories All Discussions 1 013 General Discussion 895 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 Popular Tags wiki 27 ceb 21 solar 18 gvcs 17

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/gvcs-technical-development (2016-04-30)
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  • FreeCAD - Open Source Ecology Forums
    say turn the program on now move the mouse to this place now click now make another point now finish the profile now extrude it into a square that kind of thing If you haven t used OpenSCAD yet give it a look It s got a remarkably short learning curve I figure the scripting really needs to be a process definition like OpenSCAD rather than an interface definition like FreeCAD But I might not be defining things correctly I don t understand the code well enough to describe what s really going on Vote Up 0 Vote Down eukreign February 2012 Permalink I m a little torn between script based vs model based engineering My hunch is that model based is what most people expect and will likely need to be supported My goal is parallel to what FreeCAD does and I plan to integrate fully with FreeCAD The idea I m pursuing is project management versioning for engineering work I should probably add a high level explanation description to the wiki page explaining the goals and such Vote Up 0 Vote Down eukreign February 2012 Permalink I have added an overview and also made a bunch more changes to the rest of the feature outline Vote Up 0 Vote Down mjn February 2012 Permalink I m a little torn between script based vs model based engineering Both is needed IMO Personally I like FreeCAD because parametric modeling is easy I quickly learned how to create basic shapes move them around rotate scale them etc Subtractive and additive modeling also came easy Admittedly extrusion was more difficult The Python scripting in FreeCAD opens up the full capabilities of the underlying engine which is huge far more than can be expressed in a UI I have created a short set of examples a tutorial on how to use FreeCAD at http opensourceecology org wiki FreeCAD That said I ll have a look at OpenSCAD as well Matt s earlier summary of the development chain is accurate The biggest lack on FreeCAD is the inability to produce CAM or tool path files This is why OSE is using AutoCAD and other professional design tools Mark Vote Up 0 Vote Down eukreign February 2012 Permalink Problem with OpenSCAD is that it does not produce anything that can be imported into FreeCAD Furthermore given this development at FreeCAD http sourceforge net apps mediawiki free cad index php title Assembly project It seems to make a lot of sense to just integrate tightly with FreeCAD and take advantage of the upcoming Assembly and constraints functionality For example the Quick Connect Wheels would be a project with one part and specified attachment points constraints The LifeTrac will be an Assembly project which will have the LifeTrac frame and also reference the Quick Connect Wheel part because of constraints we ll be able to actually correctly position the parts where they are supposed to go so that if you redesign the LifeTrac the Quick Connect Wheels will still show up in the correct place OpenSCAD will likely never have this functionality and using OpenSCAD models with FreeCAD models will always be a pain point FreeCAD can generate STL so there is no reason that it couldn t be used to produce CAM A few people on freecad have stated they use FreeCAD for making things to be 3d printed etc And you can always do scripting with FreeCAD using Python If someone doesn t know programming and they learn OpenSCAD script their knowledge is limited but if they learn Python they can use it to model in FreeCAD and also contribute to the tool chain Vote Up 0 Vote Down Matt Maier February 2012 Permalink OpenSCAD was just an example of the process I was suggesting That s why I contrasted it against FreeCAD s script based modeling which takes a couple dozen lines to create the same result that OpenSCAD produces with one Can a higher level set of syntax be laid over the Python that FreeCAD uses Like instead of having to script where the mouse goes and what it clicks on could the user just write draw a cube Also I can t see any reason why FreeCAD shouldn t be able to import STLs It should be on the list to implement if it isn t already That s a different subject tho Sure IF someone learns the special programming language the program is written in they will be much more useful That s great as long as we have so much professional input we can afford to dismiss all non professionals I don t think OSE is that successful yet In a more abstract sense very few people can produce good work in both mechanical electrical and computer engineering Usually you re doing quite well if you can manage one let alone two and they re usually the two that are adjacent like ME EE or EE CS So since we re going to be dependent on mechanical engineers for the machine designs it seems strange to ask them to learn how to program in a very specific language Python s not as bad as many languages but it s hardly intuitive OpenSCAD s syntax is so simple it doesn t even merit being called a language You just tell the computer to draw a cube FreeCAD seems like the sensible first choice of 3D modeling application But that s almost entirely because it s open source and has developers It s still pretty rough even when it isn t actively interfering with your ability to learn how to use it The interface sucks is what I m saying That s par for the course in open source software It doesn t bother the developers because they already know exactly how to get it to do what they programmed it to do As long as the developers are the only ones who are ever going to use it that s not

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/623/freecad (2016-04-30)
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  • chay - Open Source Ecology Forums
    General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/1394/chay (2016-04-30)
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  • Multimachine development - Open Source Ecology Forums
    manufacturing things like the CEB Press the LifeTrack or similar and none of those goals require any level of precision that is not easily attainable with a generic MultMachine design It s certainly accurate precise enough to allow one to start making electric motors for things like the torch table and it is even precise enough to be able to manufacture hydraulic motors and pumps when OSE progresses far enough to be able to make their own parts for those too By the time OSE grows a need to have more precision than what is easily attainable with the multimachine everything else kinda falls into the category of an academic discussion which isn t all bad in and of itself as long as it didn t hold up actual production or product development all for the sake of a better mousetrap for that mouse that hasn t yet evolved Vote Up 0 Vote Down Allen15 August 2011 Permalink Mark Mike I also have a preference in a perfect world for a large shop with many separate tools but I know it would require more funding than what my wife will possibly ever allow mostly because she s afraid she d never see me again and with the economy looking down there are scores of bargains to be had for the savvy shopper looking for machine tools too I thought this was for OSE not for our dream shops though Vote Up 0 Vote Down mjn August 2011 Permalink Allen15 I thought this was for OSE not for our dream shops though Personally I think it does support OSE in conjunction with my own wants and needs Gathering metal working tools allows me to work on GVCS parts and even whole tools If I have a decent mill lathe drill I can still build a PowerCube I don t HAVE to use an OSE Multimachine Mark Vote Up 0 Vote Down gregor August 2011 Permalink But Mike remember to keep this in context of what they want to make with the thing basically making all the gvcs tools and things like them They won t be turning anything that weighs tons there is nothing like that in the GVCS and probably never will be Ultimately it is important not to depend to heavily on rules of thumb too I noticed people doing this with the solar project what you have to do is start from scratch basically Maybe the polymer concrete based machines get scrapped eventually but it depends on why Secondly I would want to know what exactly are the coefficients I forget the name now for the damping loss of vibrations within the material I would want a table or graph of transmission loss data through a block of material at different frequencies Secondly it really helps with long term progress if you can at least make notes as you go along retaining the good sources of information you encounter In military intelligence information that is second hand is still worth a lot less no matter how good the source Third or fourth hand is pretty useless The grade of the information can go up if it comes from an expert with years of accumulated subject specific knowledge The highest grade of reference source in this context is peer reviewed primary literature in which testing and direct analysis etc is done Also check what this guy says about replicators wrt machine tools etc http mnemnion wordpress com 2009 11 22 on replication You want the multimachine to be CNC not manually operated definitely I think all that compensation stuff to be done automatically Allen manual is not an option The thing here is to get from digital design files to physical object as cheaply as possible and the need for a highly trained machinist is a major barrier to that Secondly as I said the exact precision needed is a good question which has not really been answered IT grades http www engineersedge com international tol htm are a good place to start If someone could find like a table of the IT grades needed for various machine parts that would be good Vote Up 0 Vote Down Allen15 August 2011 Permalink It is unlikely that OSE or anyone else will obviate or obsolete a good machinist ever any more then teaching some machine to play the flute will be able to put Hubert Laws out of business They are artists at work The best that is likely possible is that the minimum quality level with little or no training can go up with the right tools That being said the people who are expecting to be able to use this equipment will become better designers if they can at least get the basics of machining down on the respective equipment that they are needing to use so that they can become more familiar with the limitations of their own equipment and that has to start manually not CNC or there will probably be many more and more expensive mistakes made in the learning process Yes the process has to be something that CAN be automated to a degree but combining the possibilities of this platform with even average machining experience can increase the payoffs considerably and faster too Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink gregor wrote You want the multimachine to be CNC not manually operated definitely But Delanys multimachine isn t CNC ready 1 It has no power feeds in ints axis Without motors no CNC 2 For reasonable operation under computer control you need stick slip free bedways roller bearings or anti friction coating And you need ball screws 3 CNC should be able to change spindle speeds Thats not possible with those belt drives All together it s no invitation to modify such a machine to CNC Mike Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink gregor But Mike remember to keep this in context of what they want to make with the thing basically making all the gvcs tools and things like them they won t be turning anything that weighs tons there is nothing like that in the GVCS and probably never will be Yes I have seen what is planned in the GVCS I found there things like 200hp tractors trucks bulldozers and 50MW wind turbines These all have parts you want make on a table lathe I m dealing with OSE since a few days but for me there are big discrepancies between what they plan to do with GVCS and the OSE specifications and how they plan to do it One OSE specification demands OSE has to be of equal or better performance than commercial available tools Does anyone think that can be achieved with cheap simple tools made from scrap parts Another example There are basic drawings of the OSE shop on this site Do you really think that is a shop for building trucks and bulldozers I made a simple basic layout for a shop where you can build trucks You have the space and most of the necessary tools Its huge look for yourself Building size is 164 x 58 ft Its no factory for mass production of trucks I would guess its capacity at 1 truck per day Do you still believe with the OSE shop and a multi machine you can manufacture trucks Mike Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink Here should follow the pic Attachments Truck Fabrik1 2 jpg 40K Vote Up 0 Vote Down Dawg August 2011 Permalink I ve been around the corner with OSE on this topic What is that saying A little knowledge is dangerous I operate professional quality CNC machines for a living and there is no way that a untrained person could even run one never mind program it Even a specially made easy to operate Multi machine will be next to impossible to program without a fair bit of training and experience The cheesier the machine the more skill you will need to get it to do anything useful It takes 5 to 10 years to create a decent machinist that can make commercial quality mechanical parts My purpose here is to put things into perspective To recreate 10 years of human experience into some sort of program is well beyond OSE s abilities at the moment I agree totally with Allen15 manual first The computer that controls a CNC machine does not know how to machine YOU must know how to machine first It s just good at going fast and repeating your commands over and over The Dawg Vote Up 0 Vote Down gregor August 2011 Permalink Yes I guess you are right about some of those things Mike I personally do not expect them to be able to make a 50 Mw wind turbine or truck or bulldozer similar to commercial counterparts anytime soon But the lifetrac may be adapted to light earthworks soon enough But it s true there is a very major and obvious disconnect between what is being dreamt of talked about and promised and what is being done in many places Me and Dawg have complained about this several times Still the reality is not so bad itself or I would not bother wasting even the very small amount of time around here that I do An open cnc multimachine would still be plenty nice to have But yes I agree that is not the stated goal though and these tensions are IMO real leadership issues that cause trouble drive people away etc It s kind of like Marcin is going to the doctor and not telling them the whole story or changing it all the time I mean you can t expect people to help you if that is the way you are going to be Anyway If you don t think there is enough space to make a truck I pretty much have to take your word for it But I think it is important to have access to the engineering texts and other highly detailed information here and really have a very close look at things Like I said first principles How does your truck factory work and why is it not possible to make it smaller You probably don t have time to answer that question but that s the sort of thing that is needed Similarly Dawg I would bet good money you are right if you say so and mean it but I would never write it off as being possible to do a higher degree of automation i e increase the quality to training ratio well above what you are indicating without having a very close look are there any freely available textbooks and training materials for machinists I wonder that we could go through I m sure there are a million different things like compensating for thermal expansion bit wear each material is different and test pieces usually need to be done to determine the parameters for good machining but for all those things there is ultimately substantial hope for automation I know there is a big project right now to get the parameters needed for good machining of different material in different situations recorded and into the public domain so it will reduce the cost of initial setup for a production run by allowing a higher degree of automation for that step I also agree that there is some definite naivete going around in some places here and have seen it in some places that I know a bit about myself like water treatment and in retrospect the nickel iron battery prototype with concrete was very naive Reality does tend to intrude in the most inconvenient ways and you need to admit and embrace that not deny it as is sometimes done Vote Up 0 Vote Down Allen15 August 2011 Permalink Gregor LOL I must have missed any episodes about prototyping a nickel iron battery with concrete Scary but maybe entertaining I do have some ideas about water treatment that I d love to get your feedback on as a sanity check if you re willing though in the OSRLiving org group currently under Aquaponics Vote Up 0 Vote Down Dawg August 2011 Permalink gregor Hey I love anything automated But it has to make sense The group s plasma torch table is a great project for instance The potential there to save many man hours is tremendous But even that relatively simple machine isn t being used to it s full potential because of the complexities involved As an example it s important to realize that a torch table and a CNC router are very different machines They kinda look the same and the movements are similar But because the router s cutting tool comes in contact with the work it has to be built differently and the programming is much more complex On the surface it would seem like a good opportunity for a neat multi machine Kill two birds with one stone right I don t think so It would be such a waste to run a torch table with a machine designed to cut metals Similarly it would be crazy to try and machine hard material with a lightly built gantry designed to barely hold it s own weight In the machining fabricating world multi machines are complex and rarely do any one function as well as their single function counterparts As for learning to be a machinist Sure someone can take the time to do this I was 60 or 70 self taught when I entered college But I get the impression that some in the group feel that the CNC part of the name means that less knowledge is needed because somehow the computer is there to help This is not the case At some point you have to ask yourself what will the practical benefits be for the AVERAGE person Building and designing a sophisticated aspirin dispenser that has the knowledge to give you the right number of pills for a particular situation doesn t replace a physician The Dawg Similarly Dawg I would bet good money you are right if you say so and mean it but I would never write it off as being possible to do a higher degree of automation i e increase the quality to training ratio well above what you are indicating without having a very close look are there any freely available textbooks and training materials for machinists I wonder that we could go through Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink gregor How does your truck factory work and why is it not possible to make it smaller Basically I have tried to put all equipment in it that you need to build trucks Built it mostly on your own not buy most of the components and just assembling them Two important areas are still missing but they are better performed in an auxiliary building paint jobs and heat treatment I designed that factory such that the material flow works from the right side raw material to the left until a completed truck leaves the hangar It has space for assembling up to 6 trucks simultaneously thus I guess with enough personnel you can complete a truck each day Why is it not smaller Well gregor I now made a smaller 83ft long version for you Look at it and you will see how it performs compared to the large version This is what I did removed storage for raw materials removed 1 bandsaw reduced area for welding operations removed 1 small and 1 medium lathe removed knee type mill removed 1 drill press removed 3 workbenchs and space for small assembly removed most space for final assembly now just one truck can be assembled additional shelfs and storage space removed free space between all equipment reduced Disadvantage of this reduced concept is that you can t work with many people in that shop Too tight spaces between machines not enough space to store larger unfinished parts Only 1 assembly area You save half the shop size but production rate will drop to 1 or 2 trucks per month as you can only work with a few people I don t think you can remove much additional equipment or you will have to buy most of the components But thats not OSE is it Mike Attachments Truck Fabrik2 3 jpg 52K Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink Another view Attachments Truck Fabrik2 1 jpg 54K Vote Up 0 Vote Down Bastelmike August 2011 Permalink Just seen on the wiki see GVCS Rollout plan Astonishing the capabilities of this machine CNC integration with tool change capability works as 1 mill 2 drill 3 lathe 4 surface grinder 5 centerless grinder 6 nut bolt machine 7 bandsaw 8 cold cut saw In the same document but other place it also serves as 9 ball bearing grinder Thats the solution one machine replaces nine I regret very much that I personally don t believe in such a miracle machine But maybe someone in this forum can convince me that this 9 in 1 machine is more than a useless piece of metal going soon to the scrapyard Mike Vote Up 0 Vote Down mjn August 2011 Permalink Oh ye of little faith How will you experience the rapture if you don t BELIEVE Mark Vote Up 0 Vote Down Allen15 August 2011 Permalink Ashes to ashes dust to dust scraps to the scrap yard From whence it came so shall it go forth but not until it hath toiled for mankind yet again While it is true that this machine will be a challenge to automate with CNC that doesn t automatically relegate it to the scrap heaps where most of it came from in the first place One has to have tools to make better tools

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/356/multimachine-development (2016-04-30)
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  • Raybelec - Open Source Ecology Forums
    Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni in

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/2065/Raybelec (2016-04-30)
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