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  • Who needs skin?! - Open Source Ecology Forums
    which is best achieved using that particular suite of techniques that are or would be most favourable to established large industrial entities to the specific detriment to any alternative That is very much in the exclusionistic character of BMW Have you a link The simplest fabricated ladder frame would suffice given a system of suspension designed around free articulation in warp That would be a much more effective mudball than any skeletal frame which a stigmergic responsor is likely to want to take an angle grinder to first Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership Categories All Discussions 1 013 General Discussion 895 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 In this Discussion Ned Ludd November 2012 Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/945/who-needs-skin (2016-04-30)
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  • Ned_Ludd - Open Source Ecology Forums
    Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/2156/Ned_Ludd (2016-04-30)
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  • OSE Car Lifetime Cost Comparison - Open Source Ecology Forums
    a working car Is it now more clear Yes you have right that I haven t considered the case Industrial DIY I don t plan to include it because currently it is also harder to DIY because of the lack of knowledge and technology designed not to be easily repaired Joe Justice confirmed that the data is exactly as Wikispeed expects Vote Up 0 Vote Down Nikolayhg May 2012 Permalink I updated the calculations I forgot few considerations like acquiring a new OS Car after its Lifetime and created two cases for a Lifetime of 100 and 33 years https docs google com spreadsheet pub key 0Au4HBfGndfFmdFF4bDA4aW1Ia3MwTTNxaXI5UEZUV1E output html Comments are welcome The data will be presented in 2 weeks internationally Vote Up 0 Vote Down Matt Maier May 2012 Permalink What about it is data The Wikispeed car is just a prototype so any numbers describing its performance over any span of years are hypothetical right I don t see how this is any more useful for evaluating the idea than just saying It s designed to be more efficient So you know we assume it will be Is there really a need to assign numbers to the speculation Of course I m not saying to avoid using numbers if someone higher up said to get them I suppose numbers at least show that we can do math I just personally distrust any big complicated formulas that are fill in with guesswork Interestingly I was just putting together a blog post on how open source hardware companies can turn a profit It turns out they re subject to the same rules any other business is The 2 to 4 times cheaper result in the spreadsheet looks like it s at risk of being eaten up by the profit margins necessary for one or more companies to stay in business No one ever budgets what something actually turns out to cost It always increases 50 100 when the reality of maintaining adequate stock and satisfying customers and paying employee healthcare and allowing retailers to turn a profit etc all pile up Granted part of the idea is to come up with a NEW way of doing business I guess we ll see what happens Also it looks like y all low balled some of those numbers Why are the labor costs 0 Someone has to do the work and their time is going to cost something The odds of the person doing the work making LESS than an auto mechanic are pretty low they already don t make much so it seems like the labor costs should be similar Marcin has been tossing around estimates like 5 000 of economic value per person per day Assuming an 8 hr day that means each person s time is worth 625 more if they get it done in less than 8 hours When you add up the savings of building your own car for 100 years don t you need to add up the costs of not doing other things Not to mention that the labor costs of a mechanic are burdened overhead is added in but if you re doing the work yourself you most likely aren t maintaining a full time auto shop so every time YOU do it you have to relearn some stuff and maybe get some new tools which increases the amount of time you re spending working on your car Sure a washing machine cost money to buy and replace but it frees you up to do much more valuable work than wash clothes so you can earn the money to pay for the washing machine and other things It would make sense to argue that the open source vehicle will require fewer tools and less knowledge to maintain upgrade so THAT will save labor costs over time since you can pay someone even less money to do it But again the amount saved is speculation Anywho it s an interesting thing to try and apply numbers to but my suggestion is still to just admit that we re guessing and move on Well I dunno I suppose some people will just take the projected savings at face value Maybe there s something to taking advantage of that Vote Up 0 Vote Down Nikolayhg May 2012 Permalink Hi Matt yes we don t have the final numbers and I am offering an example of what it could be I want to present this example because I believe there is some truth in there The more you help me to make it more realistic the better We have a very good discussion about that in OSE Germany https groups google com forum fromgroups topic ose germany L4eXxWyg5D8 Because of that I am considering now the case for 20 years instead of 100 Your main points 1 It always increases 50 100 when the reality of maintaining adequate stock and satisfying customers and paying employee healthcare and allowing retailers to turn a profit etc all pile up This is not considered in the calculations Only materials labor costs I don t want to include these because it gets too complicated As you say we need new WAYS to do business so that we can lower also these costs 2 y all low balled some of those numbers Why are the labor costs 0 There were 2 actions with 0 One was about planned obsolescence it is possible that for a product for which there is no planned obsolescence the user does not have any additional costs But to avoid questions and doubts like this I added 500 maintenance costs and lowered the planned obsolescence costs to 3000 per 10 years The other was exchanging the engine well it is so simple that it takes less than 5 minutes work Again to avoid questions like this I added a symbolic price of 20 for this service I would say let s forget about the 100 years example and consider the 20 years Where are its weak points https docs google com spreadsheet pub key 0Au4HBfGndfFmdFF4bDA4aW1Ia3MwTTNxaXI5UEZUV1E output html Vote Up 0 Vote Down Matt Maier May 2012 Permalink it is possible that for a product for which there is no planned obsolescence the user does not have any additional costs Hmmm claims like no additional costs always activate my skeptic gland The way I see it a more or less DIY vehicle is going to be loading most of the cost time onto the sustainment part of the lifecycle When I buy a vehicle from Toyota I expect it to last 10 20 years with minimal maintenance because Toyota has sunk a billion dollars of world class development and testing into the vehicle before they delivered it We are doing the exact opposite We re developing and testing a vehicle with the absolute minimum expertise time and budget and we re also designing the thing to ultimately be produced at the lowest possible cost That means all the time and money we re not spending improving the design and the production process is going to be paid out over the life of the vehicle as it breaks or needs upgrading expected and unexpected Picture Microsoft Windows with its steady stream of updates patches only in hardware I don t believe that a vehicle built by amateurs out of stock materials using commodity tools is going to survive regular use and not incure any additional costs That just seems backwards I don t know how much it will end up costing but it will HAVE to cost more than a COTS vehicle Unless you guys are assuming that maintenance upgrade on COTS vehicles is so dramatically overpriced that it will always cost more than maintenance upgrade on a kit car even when the latter requires more maintenance upgrade than the former exchanging the engine well it is so simple that it takes less than 5 minutes work Again to avoid questions like this I added a symbolic price of 20 for this service MAYBE it will eventually take 5 minutes At the moment swapping out the engine in the Wikispeed car requires removing the giant body structure at least one interior module at least one crush zone and then you need tools space expertise to deal with the axles and pallet jack and whatnot And that s only the stuff I know about without ever having seen the engine module in person I m sure there s more Of course you have to do all that in reverse with the new engine However that s not the point The point is that someone had to build the engine module THAT s the part that needs to be priced out Either the engine needs to be built into the module or the module needs to be built around the engine Someone also has to transport the thing Leaving aside how big and heavy it is you can t ship things with fluids in them so swapping engines also requires you to drain all the fluids oil coolant etc and then put all of it back in How many people are willing to own a pallet jack just to swap out the engine in their car sometimes I m not even sure if you can get something that heavy delivered to your house without dealing personally with the delivery service and being present to accept delivery Same with getting rid of it My point is that the estimate seems to be leaving out a lot of complications that are going to cost time and money Sure many people who see the estimate won t know enough about the context to question it even if they do have the inclination But if you want the estimate to survive scrutiny from people who do know something about the inevitable complications you ll have to at least not put 0 there Or maybe do a much better job of explaining why certain costs were left out Ultimately it seems like maybe the problem is that you re comparing apples to oranges It will be a LONG time a decade absolute minimum probably more like two or three minimum before owning an open source paradigm breaking vehicle will be anything close to normal The turnover in our nation s vehicle fleet happens on a scale measured in decades and that s not including the time needed to develop the technology and integrate it into the existing regulatory structure So for estimates to mean anything TODAY you need to compare the Wikispeed car to its closest counterpart kit cars That s really what it is It s a kit car It s a unique vehicle designed from the ground up to be built and or maintained by its owner who has to have the disposable cash free time and interest inclination to have a full sized toy car around I m involved in enough open source hardware projects to be totally convinced that the first thousand people who own Wikispeed s cars are going to be volunteering to be part of their R D team I would do it but I don t have enough money to maintain two cars one reliable one to get me to work and one developmental one to break fix break fix break etc So you shouldn t be comparing Wikispeed s car to a regular commercial car You should be comparing it to a regular KIT car Technically to a BRAND NEW kit car design that has never been used in real life before I m sure the kit car industry or at least some old guy in it would be a good source of information on how much they actually cost These might be some good places to start http www thetruthaboutcars com 2011 08 the revolution of the car industry kit cars http eur sagepub com content 10 4 343 short http www cobrakit com Research Research htm http www kitcarclub com http www completekitcar co uk Vote Up 0 Vote Down Jason May 2012 Permalink I think it s hard to really calculate the value of a car which hasn t been proven over a few hundred thousand miles Doing a hard comparison could potentially hurt the credibility of all the other GVCS machines because there is very large market for cars and even more people who are knowledgeable about cars Personally buying cars off of craigslist is the most economical way to go The problem with them however is they have problems Brakes cooling interior fuel injectors etc etc Unless you have the time and knowledge to fix these things they get expensive fast The real cost to fix these things is 1 paying a mechanic and 2 time Down time taking it to get fixed breaking down The cost of the parts isn t actually that bad usually It s the constant hassle the other problems with craigslist cars is fuel efficiency An OS car would presumably be easy to diagnose and fix I think that s the primary value After 10 years of both closed and open source vehicles working ok the vehicle starts having problems With a closed source car this becomes a major pain With an open source car just the amount of documentation support and modularity make these repairs cost 200 300 and a couple hours as opposed to 400 700 and several days Vote Up 0 Vote Down JackMcCornack May 2012 Permalink Comments are welcome Okay I ll step up to the plate As usual I ll be blunt The data will be presented in 2 weeks internationally I think describing one s hopes as data hurts credibility in the long run though in the short run it does generate enthusiasm If the object is to get folks to click the Donate Now button this cost comparison may be effective But just between us chickens it might be helpful to do a similar analysis on a different page perhaps sans the spin I would say let s forget about the 100 years example and consider the 20 years Where are its weak points If it s meant to convince it s strong as is If it s meant to inform then weak points abound The comparison of an engine swap 2500 for the CM zero dollars for the OS Wikispeed The assumption is that the OS Wikispeed person is smart and skilled enough to build their own OS car and the CM owner isn t smart skilled enough to even install an engine Also there s n o comparison of cost of materials no mention of materials at all when the OS Wikispeed engine module will be considerably more expensive than a CM engine For the CM car an engine includes an engine For the OS Wikispeed car the zero labor OSE Wikispeed 4 bolts slide the engine module out engine includes an engine a transaxle an electrical system a fuel system and plenty more Ditto the service cost comparison which indicates the OS Wikispeed builder is smart enough to do all service and upgrades for nothing and the CM owner is too dumb to even change the oil Quoting from the spreadsheet we assume 3000 costs inflicted by planned obsolescence on CM Well planned obsolescence may mean different things to different people but if you mean it the way Vance Packard meant it I think it was real among the Big Three back in the 50s but the auto industry is worldwide and too competitive nowadays for I mean come on now the idea that modern car companies can devalue their own cars 12 via planned obsolescence without losing market share to those that don t it s kind of stretching the conspiracy theory isn t it I would say let s forget about the 100 years example You can say it but as long as that example is on the wiki and The data will be presented in 2 weeks internationally I think it s fair to note the 100 years example claims a total of 75 000 of planned obsolescence costs against the CM car in the Action item of Planned Obsolescence any example The CM s 3rd and 13th year 5000 Broke add new body fee is not justified CM cars do not average 500 worth of body damage a year In 5 years the average American will trade in and buy their next car if they did the same wasteful behaviour If the average American sells their used car every five years then the average American buys a used car every five years If it s wasteful behavior for the seller it s frugal behavior for the buyer The OS Car Lifetime Cost Comparison doesn t compare the cars as much as it compares the owners OS Wikispeed owners are smart and frugal CM owners are dumb and wasteful OS Wikispeed owners keep their cars for 20 years and sell them for half of what it cost to build them CM owners get rid of their cars in 10 years according to the chart and also sell them for half of what they cost when they were new If this were a lifetime comparison of the cars then years 11 20 for the CM would be as operated by the second owner Who apparently is smarter and more frugal than the first owner smart and frugal enough to drive a 10 year old car though not nearly as smart and frugal as the OS Wikispeed owner in the 100 years comparison that OS Wikispeed owner drives his car for a hundred years spends less than 100 a year on maintenance and upgrades and gets half his initial investment back when he sells it The dumb CM owner sells early and loses more than 100 a month on depreciation while the smart OS Wikispeed owner keeps it in the family for generations his grandkids will see the odometer

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/772/ose-car-lifetime-cost-comparison (2016-04-30)
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  • Open Source Tractor - Open Source Ecology Forums
    Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 Popular Tags wiki 27 ceb 21 solar 18 gvcs 17 energy 15 cad 14 water 11 cnc 11 3d 10 software 8 introduction 8 christian 8 community 7 collaboration 7 open source 7 forum 7 wind 7 development 6 ose 6 design 6 documentation 6 questions 6 error 5 search 5 Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/open-source-tractor (2016-04-30)
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  • Hydraulic motor sizing - Open Source Ecology Forums
    GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 Tagged Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/73/hydraulic-motor-sizing (2016-04-30)
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  • sundug - Open Source Ecology Forums
    skp is for Lifetrac5 If it is it looks to me like the design can and should be modified for Lifetrac6 to bring the articulating pivot closer to the ground This would help lower the center of gravity and also reduce upward thrust on the pivot which broke in LIfetrac1 by bringing the pivot closer to the horizontal plane of forward thrust i e the plane of the wheel axles ken morton July 2013 Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership About Username sundug Joined March 2011 Visits 1 Last Active March 2011 Roles Member Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni in Italiano 1 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/70/sundug (2016-04-30)
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  • Gasifier Burner - Open Source Ecology Forums
    IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 Popular Tags wiki 27 ceb 21 solar 18 gvcs 17 energy 15 cad 14 water 11 cnc 11 3d 10 software 8 introduction 8 christian 8 community 7 collaboration 7 open source 7 forum 7 wind 7 development 6 ose 6 design 6 documentation 6 questions 6 error 5 search 5 Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/gasifier-burner (2016-04-30)
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  • Biomass Gasifier/hot-water-furnace Plans now Posted - Open Source Ecology Forums
    very high efficiencies in condensation mode perhaps 95 of the High Heat of wet fuels most furnaces are rated at Low Heat efficiency since they don t condense the moisture to get back the heat of vaporization Since green biomass can often be half water and half of the dry fuel gets thermally converted to steam this represents a significant increase in energy available from condensing the woodgas or exhaust Since this unit has not been built yet I don t know the performance parameters it will exhibit in actual operation but I expect it to create a high quality gas clean enough after the condensing heat exchanger CHX for the engine without further cyclone separators or filters There will be an operating range where the gas is the cleanest and another condensing range where efficiencies of both gas and hot water production are highest These parameters will have to be tested to know for sure If you are interested in the principles behind this design and gasification combustion heat exchangers I highly recommend reading the introduction which is in the Gasplans2 zip file located at http opensourceecology org wiki Gasifier Burner with Heat Exchanger Prototype I Update 2 8 12 or simply read it on my webpage at http www fundamentalform com html biomass gasifier breakthrough html I hope to get you fired up to build one as I will be doing here on Whidbey Island Washington I will also be posting videos on the details of ongoing fabrication and will be moderating discussions on this Gasifier Burner Forum Welcome to the Forum Attachments 3D section1 jpg 205K Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership Categories All Discussions

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/671/biomass-gasifierhot-water-furnace-plans-now-posted (2016-04-30)
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