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  • Darren - Open Source Ecology Forums
    Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 3 Discussões em Português 20 Ecovilas 2 Discussions en Français 2 Обсуждения в Россию 1 Discusiones en Español 5 Discussioni in

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/profile/2506/Darren (2016-04-30)
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  • New OSE Main Web Site - Open Source Ecology Forums
    just a mishap Or do we have a GVCS51 now 2 There is still no link or menu item pointing to this forum 3 Crowd funding is mentioned but crowd development is not All mentioned development opportunities happen either under direct OSE control or indirect control Crowd development like in open source software is not mentioned Is it not welcome What jumped to your attention Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership Categories All Discussions 1 013 General Discussion 895 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New Communities 10 Other Languages 34 Project Management 4 Proposal and Development Status 10 Organizational Development 26 Team Logs 4 OSE Core Team 1 OSE IT Core Team 2 OSE Collaboration Platform Core Team 6 Resource Development 3 GVCS Technical Development 52 Open Source Car 10 Open Source Tractor 1 Gasifier Burner 1 CNC Torch Table 5 Agricultural Microcombine 4 Dimensional Sawmill 1 Documentation and Instructionals 18 OSE Dev 0 Trucktor 0 Microtrac 0 CNC Router 0 CNC Torch Table 0 Bulldozer 0 Backhoe 0 Car 0 3D Printer 0 3D Printer Laser Diode 0 Tractor 0 Powercube 0 Brick Press Controller 0 Loading Open Source Ecology Forums Discussions All Categories General Discussion 357 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42 Health 2 Sustainable Architecture 21 Transportation 10 Household 6 IT Web Infrastructure 110 Shared Personal Notes 1 New

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1048/new-ose-main-web-site (2016-04-30)
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  • Power Cube + Generator - Open Source Ecology Forums
    would require a new mechanical interface to hook up a generator requiring a design change of the power cube But this might be worthwhile and increasing the versatility of the power cube C would require a completely new power module Depending on your requirements for the electricity properties like direct or alternating current 1 phase or 3 phase and stability of AC frequency and voltage you would need additional electrical power converters further reducing efficiency or closed engine control loops to meet those req Vote Up 0 Vote Down Metz February 2014 Permalink 120v ac is not really universal you need 220v 50 60hz for the rest of the world As far as the gasoline engine model power cube I can tell you right off it will not be adopted in SE Asia Gasoline is taxed at 25 more per liter if not more in SE Asia Unless you are doing a gasifier unit tompower the thing with things like sticks twigs etc stick with diesel Farm and construction vehicles use diesel engines in Asia here the Chinese diesel engines are about 800 dollars and pack about 18hp They have a built in head lamp to use as a farm tractor They just make a base plate connect a chain to a solid axle with 2 tires and hitch it to a wagon It s a mechanical water buffalo I have seen the same engine for sale in Africa Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click one of these buttons Sign In Apply for Membership Categories All Discussions 1 013 General Discussion 895 Introductions 145 GVCS Development 43 GVCS Replication 14 Similar Projects Partnerships and Open Culture 53 In the News 14 Education 15 Food 18 Energy 42

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1032/power-cube-generator (2016-04-30)
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  • Critical thoughts about the philosophy of the OSE society - Open Source Ecology Forums
    others Let s hope otherwise 10 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added Vote Up 0 Vote Down jeremywelch May 2013 Permalink roli it is a very long and complex topic you have posted which urges me to present another view Whilst your arguments are cogent and carry weight they are based on silent assumptions which I believe are incorrect The first is that people are by nature selfish aggressive and ignorant My understanding is that people become selfish aggressive and ignorant through the damage that is inflicted upon them in their early life cutting them off from their core connection leaving them stranded and afraid in a world they cannot understand It is this damage that gives rise to the conflicts of interest that in turn give rise to the need for trading rather than gifting the principle of the Give Away that the thanksgiving turkey represents I do not believe that every technological wonder would be created in this way only those products that give satisfaction to the producer in the process of production would be produced in surplus to give away but there are those who enjoy engineering as much as an artist or musician or woodcarver enjoys their craft I would imagine that a large proportion of the people in this forum are in this category The second assumption is that quality of life arises from high technology Whilst our society does its best to raise up our technological achievements to convince us that technology is the only way that our desire for a happy loving and comfortable life can be realised just a little investigation will show that only a few mostly very simple technologies deliver any of our needs without actually increasing our workload to achieve it if the effort involved in production is taken into account and the interest on the loan to pay for it The best technologies will be ones which last a very long time giving a century of service or more like an original singer sewing machine On the other hand there exists a far more advanced technology than any we have devised with intelligent quantum data processing distributed throughout its self repairing totally recyclable self powering and self constructing nano machine based structures otherwise known as Life As a programmer and engineer I understand the value of building on the work of others the very basis of the open source method so why do we not start from the most advanced that there is already and work up from there And finally your oldest and most important scarcity is an illusion land is not scarce and its distribution has only been uneven in relatively recent times say the last 3000 years 2000 depending on where you are looking at It is also untrue that there are too many people for the amount of land that there is The amount of land required to supply the needs of a family is only about one to two hectares and in fact more than that becomes unmanageable If even just 50 of the land is useable that means that there is room for 5 billion families average number 4 persons in a stable population With proper management the quality and productivity of the land should increase over time whilst the work required to maintain it should go down as long lived productive plantings and self seeding annuals take over from the labour intensive annuals that have become the expected norm a few more discrete points 1 electronic communications are currently organised in a hierarchical way That is not a technological constraint but a result of the way things are managed by finance Wireless mesh networking in a distributed rural population is a real possibility with already existing technology and that could replace the phone network also with VOIP Although there are also very good reasons for not doing this as well mainly the effect that microwaves have on people within that field 2 Water Closet Surely were over mixing our faeces into the water table 3 A huge part of our electronic world becomes useless without actually breaking There is a BBC Master computer in my fathers house that still does everything it did 25 years ago but nothing that it can do is still very useful it has about the same capability as a small micro controller The reason it is useless is that it has been superseded by more exciting things If the new products stopped rolling of the production line we would not be without technology to play with for a very long time and programmers would have to start working on making their code smaller and more efficient rather than relying on new hardware to bail them out Recycling will also take us a long way after all it is natures way 4 who would choose plywood or chipboard over real wood 5 There are alternatives to roads which do not involve covering valuable land with asphalt 6 Before I had my land I enjoyed travelling around to see various people If there were a community of land dwelling people all within 1km I would probably never again wish to go further except to go a find my true love if she were not already within that circle As far as materials and engineering go it is only a matter of time and understanding for every challenge you have set to be met most if not all without resorting to mineral mining after all rust is just iron in another form and it can be re smelted plastics too can mostly be re formed the only issues are really separation of materials organic based plastics such as the organic protein starch based open cell foam commonly known as bread or the elastomer known as jello are also a distinct possibility in a rural kitchen OSE has to become better than the Megacity alternative but as much of that is about Megacity inhabitants becoming aware that life in an environment made mostly of living things has advantages not achievable in a concrete box Neo Rural life needs to become the Premium Product the more desirable situation to raise ones children healthy happy and intelligent then as industrial farming collapses under the weight of irresponsible genetic hacking and bank debt it will not only be the City drop outs but also the wealthier ones who will be there to buy the bankrupt farmers lands and create the space for communities to develop If people were to just stop and look at where the wealthiest and most powerful people have always chosen to live mostly in large rural estates that are passed down the family it may begin to get obvious not on an intellectual level but on a feeling level and it is our feelings that really drive our life decisions Vote Up 0 Vote Down roli May 2013 Permalink thanks Jeremy I appreciate your comments General Your views are more idealsitic and romantic than mine I feel sympathetic for those views But they do not make my views wrong As they say hope for the best and prepare for the worst I grew up in the country side often helping out on a small farm Probably that is why i do not feel romantic about the country life because i understand the pragmatism of it Believe me the farmers don t keep piggies because of their pure love to those animals but because of the economy of it They sell the piggies to the slaughter house in order to buy a new TV set and game console from the money Is that already selfish Farming is a means to an end and not a romantic dream Don t get me wrong I also appreciate the underlying values of producing healthy goods out of the ground knowing where things come from protecting the environment not necessarily for its own sake but to be able to live from it also in the future That is the main reason why OSE appeals to me It tries to do the right thing not for romantic reasons but for economic reasons which in the end means egoistic reasons Let me explain I am an engineer I love my profession not farming However I would be ready to do some farming max 50 of my time if it gave me the independence to do what I really love in the remaining time Therefore I welcome all reasonable technical assistance helping me to keep the farming time to a minimum and the free time to a maximum I would have double satisfaction i would be able to do what I love for at least 50 of my time and I would know that I would gain this independence in a sustainable healthy way selfish I assume there are many people like me who do not really love farming but would do it part time if it bought them more freedom than they have in their present full time jobs In any case many more than the idealistic romantic back to nature dreamers who when they really get to live their dream soon are frustrated because they find out that farming is hard work and not as ideal as their purple dreams OSE serves more the first probably much more numerous group I do believe in the good in most people But I am no fool and know that the bad also lives in most people I don t want to wait until enough people have become predominantly good until OSE can be realized in a large scale because I would have to wait forever But OSE has found a social model that would work also with the less than idealistic society of today who is still looking for what s in it for me OSE serves both the selfish wishes AND the ecological necessities That will attract many more people Is it bad if lots of people do the right thing when they do it for the wrong reasons No quality of life arises from high technology here I agree with you most of the way technology is good if it is sustainable and serves a sustainable purpose If it increases my quality of life in a sustainable way even better then I certainly will not complain To have a reasonably good quality of life is not necessarily evil or non sustainable That is the aim of OSE to have both Ecology and a good life quality land scarcity I have no figures and facts to this point I only know that in the last 2000 3000 years people have become frighteningly numerous to a point where we have to check exactly whether the land will feed all sufficiently And I also know that the land ownership is very unevenly distributed Those who own more land than they need have power over those who have less land than they need This is a social issue even or specially if there would be enough for all if it were evenly distributed And this is called artificial scarcity The distribution of land often caused revolutions wars land reforms even genocide yes also in the USA only some 150 years ago If a large number of people decided to become OSE farmers then the availability of land would become a very crucial issue Economic or political solutions have to be found for this in order to avoid violence 1 electronic communication Even with wireless mesh networking you need microprocessors And they do not grow on farms They will not likely be made in 200 people villages They will need large industries Hence one more remaining outside dependency It has to be accepted as a reality 2 Water closet of course It is individual where each of us draws the line about what he needs to live an acceptable life and what not You and I would not want to miss a water closet But some include also air conditioning or a cellular in this category Who are we to decide for them what is acceptable and what isn t We have to leave it to them OSE tries to offer most of what you could wish for If you need less then that is good for you But don t try to deny it to others or have OSE not trying to find a way to provide it 3 I am not sure what point you re trying to make here 4 who would choose plywood or chipboard over real wood Those who would like not to waste scrap wood Sawing rectangular solid boards and beams from a round and conic tree trunk leaves lots of scrap wood 40 50 This could be used in chip boards Or by cutting the trunk into veneer for plywood you would reduce the amount of scrap wood dramatically I don t expect you to make your living room furniture out of chip board 5 There are alternatives to roads which do not involve covering valuable land with asphalt Please enlighten us What are those alternatives 6 travelling around to see various people You are free to live like an eremite But do not assume that others want to miss their social life OSE has to become better than the Megacity alternative I agree And its promise of only 2 3 hours daily work for your support is already a much better alternative Therefore it is worth the while to help realize it Don t expect that everybody wants to become a FULL time eco farmer Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo September 2013 Permalink I don t really believe there is a well defined OSE philosophy Marcin s vision is to re create the civilization from scratch first create the most basic tools and then create the rest of the machines with those tools Then make housing and agriculture with those machines and then develop industry creating tools for agriculture with the open source machines The rest of the people in the OSE have their own views some think that everyone should have their own workshop some others are fans of Jaque Fresco with his Venus Project and they want to create a resource based economy some others love to see progress made on developing open source machines etc If OSE and it s future clones replication economy of scale will grow big enough they can make all the products you mentioned above high performance steels hard tough abrasion resistant hydraulic piston seals oils lubricants rubber tires copper wire insulation etc The purpose is to create those machines GVCS for the world to use not just for a small village community at FeF I think you are unrealistic when you talk about farmers being united in a OSE community struggling against banks and doing their best to prove a new lifestyle is possible Once the OSE machines will be developed available to buy and to repair for cheap it will make people s life in general easier not only farmers and that s all Open Source machines will probably make life easier for the people in Africa but it won t eradicate corruption and poverty for sure The big problem of OSE is the approach It s not efficient at all It should have startet with creating some popular machines house appliances and that would bring a lot of reputation and cash http forum opensourceecology org discussion 677 is the plan really efficient But Marcin wants to re create civilization from scratch So we have to wait for OSE to create machines that extract ore machines that extract the metals from the ore machines that make wires metal sheets and bars machines that cut metal then machines that make tools screws etc and in the end with those materials and tools we can create the appliances we really need This will take too long unfortunately decades I guess Vote Up 0 Vote Down roleic November 2013 Permalink hi gonzo your idea about starting with household appliances could indeed be a good way of financing such projects This might be an interesting approach for OSE replications The same might be true for MIG welders or plasma cutters without X Y table wood chippers and pelletizers by the way Who says that replication projects should only copy exactly what OSE head quarter has done before The replicas could start in a different way and develop GVCS machines in a different sequence and also machines outside and beyond GVCS50 The replicas probably wont get as much publicity and therefore cannot expect to rely on crowd funding Therefore sales of low price long life household appliances and other devices might be a good alternative Concerning Marcin s decision to begin with construction machines CEB press tractor power cube dimensional saw mill and agricultural machines tractor tiller makes sense from the investment point of view Right after the land purchase the next biggest investments of a small farmer are buildings and agricultural machines These are the biggest obstacles for somebody without big money or big loan to become a small farmer And Marcin is on his way to lower that obstacle by a factor of ten You can buy household appliances cheap in industrialized countries They only last 3 5 years though However purchasing them is not an insurmountable obstacle to start a small farm And moreover I don t think anybody would stop you if you started developing household appliances in the OSE wiki or anywhere else If you start it others might follow you Marcin had the courage to dedicate several years of his life to this cause and did not give up when the going got tough With his high end training with PHD he could have taken a well paid job in a government institution and lead a comfortable life But he chose to struggle and learn and advance for the OSE cause Maybe he is not on the most direct and efficient

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1018/critical-thoughts-about-the-philosophy-of-the-ose-society (2016-04-30)
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  • Seed Factory Paper - Open Source Ecology Forums
    core of the real challenge the design of the equipment such that it will serve its purpose AND it will be able to be reproduced by a 660 person village Reproduction of the present designs of tractors harvesters or sawmills etc in the village would by far not be possible because of the high number of different raw materials used the huge number of different parts created by a large number of different processes provided by suppliers and their suppliers etc To self reproduce such a machine you would have to also reproduce a good part of the whole industry of today This is obviously not possible or reasonable for a 660 person village To come closer to the feasibility of reproduction the design of e g a tractor has to be changed fundamentally to become much easier to reproduce AND still serve its purpose First the number of materials used must be dramatically reduced and limited to those available at the location of the village Another village with different natural resources might have to use a very different design of such a tractor and its reproduction facilities Then the number of different parts and manufacturing processes must be dramatically reduced Then the complexity of the parts and the processes must be reduced And last but not least the design is required to be able to be automatically produced assembled maintained repaired disassembled and recycled why all of this automatically This probably means a complete and fundamental redesign not only of the tractor but also of the reproduction facilities machines by substituting most established designs and processes with new ones This and not the lack of SE is the main reason why humanity has so far never succeeded in creating a system with high let alone full level of self reproduction System Engineering alone can not perform this Only a complete redesign by forgetting almost every known design today might be able to achieve the goal This means also that the products houses house hold equipment etc might look very different to what we are used to today And perhaps if some future villagers knew today how that new habitat would eventually look like then they might decide not to participate in the first place Since there has never ever a self reproducing system been built I recommend to start much smaller E g just try to plan and develop something as simple as a table spoon for 85 self reproduction Yes the spoon is no system but just one part However its reproduction machinery which has to reproduce itself as well is already a big challenge Demonstrate that it can be done within a village of 660 people and 300 hectares of land Learn from the process and apply the lessons learned to the next more complex product A part of the spoon machinery can be either reused as is or be generalised for more universal utility But much new equipment will have to be developed Based on just

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/990/seed-factory-paper (2016-04-30)
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  • OSE needs a dedicated open-HW-development-tool-chain (not just a CAD) - Open Source Ecology Forums
    like a compiler or interpreter by locally turning such source code into 3D geometry data This may take some time So does compiling SW source code But as in the so called build automation SW of SW development you might keep the locally compiled object code single 3D geometry objects in separate files such that only the changed objects and depending ones have to be recompiled Since these CAD scripts have text format they can be managed like SW source code e g with existing distributed version control software like git or mercurial Changes could be diff ed and merged In the best case sub assemblies could be filled in different source files and sub directories just like in open SW development Only the files which have changed would need to be distributed This process has been proven even in very large open SW projects like the Linux Kernel e g by applying the dictator and lieutenants workflow If this can be implemented then you would have much better change mgmt than all commercial expensive PDM systems are able to provide Why does such a tool not yet exist in the commercial world Because the commercial CAD vendors don t want standardized script languages because their customers would no longer be locked into their product and could easily change CAD tools But for open source HW projects this is essential 1 to be able to distribute compact source code over the internet and 2 a CAD and build system to efficiently turn source code into 3D geometry 3 to easily manage many submitted changes from a large crowd As a starting point existing open source CAD systems with a scripting language could be used Ideally they have a source code window and a graphical 3D geometry window showing source code and geometry side by side FreeCad and PythonOCC are candidates With more limitations also Salomé OpenSCAD and ImplicitCAD If the open mechanical HW movement does not bother to develop a tool chain matching their needs it will not take off like the open SW and the open electronic HW movements did by creating their own dedicated tool chains The most important missing link in the mechanical HW tool chain is a open CAD tool working with text source code files and directories visualizing changes of two designs and possibly highlighting the relevant source code if a part of a 3D geometry is selected in the graphical window Also the interaction of such a CAD with a build system to avoid rebuilding unchanged geometry is required Such a tool chain will have to be developed by mechanical engineers because only they know what is needed However too many mechanical engineers seem to back away from SW development It is time to change that And it is high time for a dedicated open mechanical HW tool chain allowing large crowds to efficiently collaborate How hard can it be Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1043/ose-needs-a-dedicated-open-hw-development-tool-chain-not-just-a-cad (2016-04-30)
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  • Philippines GVCS needed - Open Source Ecology Forums
    time after a disaster different needs must be served and therefore different equipment may be required Immediate Aid E g right after the disaster medical care for injured people is probably the most urgent Next might be recovering of buried and trapped people Meanwhile the uninjured survivors need clean water food shelter and sanitary facilities To enable this aid a minimum infrastructure must be established very fast Communication transport by air waterway and road clearing of the most critical access ways Bringing in heavy machinery for clearing roads and recovering trapped people All these things should happen in the first hours and days There is not enough time to build the needed equipment first before transporting it to the disaster zone Existing equipment must be brought in quickly Therefore I don t see a realistic application of GVCS for immediate aid After all the GVCS is intended to build and maintain small farming villages within a time frame of one to several years Rebuilding Infrastructure Rebuilding roads drinking water grid power grid communication grid waste water disposal housing etc are tasks that come in the following weeks and months It seems here are more tasks overlapping with the GVCS purposes and time frames For removal of rubbel and many kinds of construction work the truck the bulldozer and tractor equipped with bucket loader and backhoe would be useful Since the rubbel contains much combustible wood also the chipper hammermill the pelletizer the gasifier the heat exchanger and the steam engine could be used to stationary generate heat and electrical or hydraulic power If a mobile version of the gasifier could be built it could make a gasoline engine like in the power cube run on scrap wood as has been done in Europe during WW2 In rural areas also the wind mill might be useful The induction furnace could be used to recycle scrap metal in the rubbel For construction the cement mixer and the rod wire mill producing rebar as well as the CEB press could be applied The last three seem more appropriate for reconstruction in rural areas since the demand of steel and concrete for a city require more productive facilities Also the well drilling rig seems useful in rural areas In order to build the GVCS equipment mentioned above the industrial types of GVCS equipment are required like welder plasma cutter iron worker etc Of course all the equipment should be developed and field tested to a sufficient degree before using it in rebuilding of disaster zones Aid organisations are in the media during the immediate help shortly after a disaster But their main work is during the rebuilding phase in underdeveloped areas For this purpose it might be a possibility that aid organisations keep material kits for GVCS equipment on stock to bring into rural disaster zones soon to enable self help of the local population Add a Comment Howdy Stranger It looks like you re new here If you want to get involved click

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1037/philippines-gvcs-needed (2016-04-30)
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  • Why is OSE so quiet lately - Open Source Ecology Forums
    replace or to make their own parts when small companies will be able to produce parts for machines and sell them to the consumer at a decent price Vote Up 0 Vote Down eBell March 2013 Permalink They sold a CEB and powercube with a significant amount of profit from input costs of materials The model for a time appeared to be bootstrapping through GVCS sales Money is definitely not in short supply at OSE look at any of the financials Aaron has completed Vote Up 0 Vote Down eBell March 2013 Permalink Gonzo Totes agree with the toys for boys angle While it s important to have the whole life cycle and chain for industrial components it s not a great business model Too much regulation Better to go after a decent cleanly designed vacuum or refrigerator or furnace or something that is a consumer durable Get some traction with that before trying to reinvent the entire economy Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink Get some traction with that before trying to reinvent the entire economy Exactly Especially when the process relies on creating a community where people live in harmony and agree with anything In order to get traction they don t have to be any better than a company team As long as they deliver sales OR popularity everything is fine Do you think we can make a petition to Marcin We should try to gather the people to ask Marcin to make at least 2 or 3 popular machines in order to make the project popular get money and traction After all we are not Marcin s fans we are just open source hardware eco design supporters who only found OSE taking that path until now Honestly I would not be surprised if there are some people inside OSE who represent the interests of the big industrial monopolies like Samsung Sony Philips etc Any progress they can make into slowing down OSE means enormous profits for those mafia companies who shamelessly call themselves industry Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink Still it s a relief to hear that Marcin also agrees to sell the machines OSE designs That will give courage to those who will think about producing machines on their own Because I thought maybe he only wants to design the machines So it could be worse Vote Up 0 Vote Down Beluga March 2013 Permalink Gonzo said Marcin is not perfect but there is no better alternative in this world As long as he is doing some progress all the money invested in OSE are the best ever spent money gonzo This is the third mass leaving event I know of in OSE history others were in 2009 and 2011 There has also been a steady stream of individual volunteers leaving because of the poor management Money spent on OSE has been wasteful thus far because the management has been wasteful constantly destroying and rebuilding the community This might well have been the last blow on OSE and widespread bad press will follow for the first time and the money sources will dry up Sorry but I m just being realistic Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink I respect your opinion but I think you are too pessimistic The money were not wasted since the OSE already delivered designs and build machines The progress was probably slowed and could have been better but as long as it s going forward at any speed the project deserves support Even if someone thinks Marcin doesn t deserve still it worths to invest in OSE Because the designs can be used for future projects which won t depend on OSE If I would work at the farm I think I would not be interested about sharing profits from sales The more money and profits go into the project the faster the GVCS designs will be done And that s the most important thing to get it done After that there will be plenty of opportunities to join teams that create machines and share profits I prefer to get as fast as possible to a better society instead of getting rich in an autistic or dystopian society But because Marcin wants to re create the civilization from scratch the progress is slow and I understand that the people lose patience No matter how much you love to improve the world 20 30 years to do it is kind of too much Vote Up 0 Vote Down Beluga March 2013 Permalink I didn t say the money was completely wasted but that the management has been wasteful because the community has constantly shattered Do you think it s more worthy to continue to invest in OSE or to the current projects of the people who left and who were involved in the GVCS building and designing and now are doing their own thing forked projects You are pondering on this most recent issue of sharing of profits but it isn t black and white like that don t focus on profits get it done as there have been ragequits all the time over several years Note how Yoonseo said he left also due in part by certain behaviour and comments by Marcin Vote Up 0 Vote Down Rabert March 2013 Permalink The most important result of this project is the idea It will not die with OSE and it will not die because of Marcin It was one of the first things I wrote when I found this board I think a couple years ago or so that there is a community governance concept of similar quality and goals as the technological ones missing Reading here that Marcin in fact is not the people person what is usually true for engineering or natural science Phd people is a bit disturbing but not surprising to me What is frustrating is that despite all their intelligence such people don t learn in areas they are not familiar with And make their ship sink with it But as I wrote the idea will remain and that is what really counts Anybody can pick it up and make something out of it Vote Up 0 Vote Down eBell March 2013 Permalink Gonzo Honestly I would not be surprised if there are some people inside OSE who represent the interests of the big industrial monopolies like Samsung Sony Philips etc Any progress they can make into slowing down OSE means enormous profits for those mafia companies who shamelessly call themselves industry Heh take off your tinfoil hat man There isn t anyone else inside OSE right now except for Marcin his cabal of advisors and Aaron M who is doing some significant slogging to get the financial stuff up to par Mega kudos for Aaron s efforts btw I guess in essence I want to support an organization with similar goals to OSE but without the personal liabilities that Marcin has introduced It s a shame that the organization is getting so much money to support Marcin s quest to become an effective executive director of a global NGO with an extremely aggressive programming in the operational sense not computers schedule He doesn t have those skills of leadership community building and management For OSE to really survive I think they ll need someone else with a lot more experience and ability in NGO management He s a scientist and needs to get back to doing that Unless there is a big change in the strategy and structure of OSE I m afraid what Beluga said will happen Rabert just wrote the comment I was writing weird Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink Do you think it s more worthy to continue to invest in OSE or to the current projects of the people who left and who were involved in the GVCS building and designing and now are doing their own thing forked projects If those forked projects exist then I m ready to support them Especially if they plan to create some popular machines washing machine refrigerator etc I guess in essence I want to support an organization with similar goals to OSE but without the personal liabilities that Marcin has introduced I would support any organization with similar goals to OSE as long as they make any progress The most important thing at the moment is to get to the turning point no matter who is doing the job Vote Up 0 Vote Down Beluga March 2013 Permalink gonzo well what do you know Yoonseo is setting up an IndieGoGo campaign Vote Up 0 Vote Down jross March 2013 Permalink Recent Popular Science coverage http www popsci com diy article 2013 03 tractor apocalypse Vote Up 0 Vote Down brianna March 2013 Permalink I lived at FeF for about 5 months total and I agree with all the listed reasons of why ppl left As for me I left for a few reasons Money I was working out there for 10 per hour Very small for the type of work I was doing design and fabrication of the ironworker I saw Marcin unwilling to pay even the most skilled labor more than 2k per month If you aren t even willing to pay that how on earth can you expect any quality results At best you will be getting college students like me wanting to contribute who don t have the skills to make a quality product Or you will be getting people doing it as a side thing guaranteeing no results I saw the bank accounts and knew the organization had more than 400k in the bank As a result there was nobody there designing the machines I didn t feel qualified to be designing this stuff I felt like there should have been experts out there designing it so I could built it There was nobody I felt like I was defrauding the investors Lies about the quality of the products The brick press produced shit for bricks They didn t have one flat surface on them I personally built 4 of these which were all shipped out without proper testing One was shipped out a year after it was supposed to be The power cube worked for a week AT THE LONGEST Unsafe living conditions and insufficient infrastructure when I was there the well water was contaminated and Marcin refused to fix it There was literally algae the water tanks and he was doing nothing to fix it We had to either buy all water at the store or drink from the RO system which I had to personally install The RO hardly produced 1 2 gallon per day to be spent among 15 people because of the low pressure coming from the pump at the well The well was also not producing enough to accomodate all the people there so we could only use toilets to poop and had to have VERY short showers Everyone I talked to who was working there had told me independently that they had felt decieved at their recruitment That they had been lied to to get to come out there My 2 cents Vote Up 0 Vote Down Rabert March 2013 Permalink That s even worse than I thought it is Pity When Marcin wants to see where he will be in 2050 with this attitude he can travel to Florida and look what Jacque Fresco has achieved in about 40 years Engineers tend to simply forget that they are dealing with human beings and that those operate completely differently compared to technology and machines Vote Up 0 Vote Down openspeed March 2013 Permalink Yoonseo here Just want to clear things up with the facts about what s happening with OSE First and foremost everyone on site left OSE after the huge conflict year end 2012 between the team and Marcin Now between Marcin his advisors and Aaron working remotely on the finances ose is recruiting a new team Now you know what s going on to an extent There s certainly lot more to the story than just that though Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink I hope your project will be successful and I m ready to support it Please if possible create some popular machines the world needs some open source home appliances re creation of civilization from scratch is way too slow Vote Up 0 Vote Down eat those lemons March 2013 Permalink Could we start some remote groups not exactly affiliated with OSE Just use the designs they are open source so if people do it themselves for fun then the projects will be better stuff will get done and progress without the boom and bust cycle I personally would be interested in a Northern Colorado Denver Metro area group Vote Up 0 Vote Down Apostolis March 2013 Permalink What were the reasons that Marcin and or his advisors didnt want to share profits Also what are the reasons that the project is hierarchical In my opinion any argument must take into considerations both the people that work there the and the probability that the project will succeed Certainly though the project has a zero probability of success if noone wants to work there Vote Up 0 Vote Down Rabert March 2013 Permalink eat those lemons Of course you can start an OSE group in your area Just do it I think that was the original intention of the project anyways to have as many local groups started as possible to multiply the project and its ideas globally Don t know if Marcin has any or claims to have any copyrights at the term OSE or the denominations of the tools OSE has developed Vote Up 0 Vote Down rothj March 2013 Permalink openspeed ohai Yoonseo I heard you were working on your own open source hardware project What exactly are you doing How s it coming along Vote Up 0 Vote Down openspeed March 2013 Permalink rothj Yeah I m starting an open source hardware cooperative with Aaron Open Tech Forever We ll be developing open source hardware producing and selling some for income and doing some training and capital assistance programs Johnathan is starting an organic farm on site so lots of collaboration ahead Taking a different route than OSE though the goal is the same economically empowered collaborative communities in an open world but the approach will be starting with widely useful tech we can sell for financial stability and that ll really get open hardware out there in use and in publicity followed by tool development as it gets more and more relevant Relevance is key because it ensures the use and replication of open hardware the reasons for which it should be produced and documented in the first place We re off to a great start Recently finalized a zero cost agreement to develop the coop at 40 acres of industrial zoned land in Denver Colorado and got in kind material donations and a lot of zero cost equipment leases from an awesome local collaborator We re all pretty excited and hoping the major next steps go smoothly The technical side is handled down pat since Aaron and I have tremendous experience from our time with OSE so it s just the initial financial and legal stuff we re trying to work out We re launching an indiegogo campaign soon early April for us to get started with the facility construction and initial round of fulfilling pre orders development and production from there we ll be able to bootstrap ourselves into further development production and the programs we ll provide later on Training and capital assistance complementing documentation equals knowledge direct experience tangible resource triple combo for ensuring the success of other businesses projects and community involvement in the open source hardware movement If everything works out we ve got a great future ahead of us Vote Up 0 Vote Down Apostolis March 2013 Permalink Has anyone heard of Sensorica They are an r d group who wants to manufacture research things in a p2p way To achieve this they break each manufacturing process into a graph of steps interdependencies and then they assign a price on each step Then they allow any person to join them and start working on any of those steps In effect they are using a p2p erp system Here are some links their inventory http valnet webfactional com accounting inventory on value networks http valuenetwork referata com wiki Main Page Vote Up 0 Vote Down gonzo March 2013 Permalink Yoonseo I will make donations and will become true fan as soon as you will make it possible It s great news to hear that you want to make popular machines How about starting a Kickstarter campaign for one such machine Maybe you can get consistent funding Vote Up 0 Vote Down PanamaDave March 2013 Permalink Speaking of quiet does anyone know how to reach JerryShaw It looks like he hasn t been here in over a year and I d love to chat with him on some of his diesel ideas for open source Thanks Vote Up 0 Vote Down RyanMartin March 2013 Permalink That all sounds horrifying and par the course for Utopian ideologues it s really a shame how willing the idea folks of this day and age are to victimize collaborators It s unbelievable how rarely people get a voice when such things happen to the public It s the information age I have a collective of makers that just received a space grant in upstate NY that are making a list of first projects to focus on and the OSE Liberator and CEB press are near the top of the list Hearing that the Powercube design doesn t hold up to use and the CEB press being almost useless scare the heck out of us though

    Original URL path: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1004/why-is-ose-so-quiet-lately (2016-04-30)
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