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  • Today's papers reviewed (courtesy of newstalk and twitter) - Page 353
    from the rich by promising to protect each from the other Oscar Ameringer Reply With Quote Page 353 of 353 First 253 303 343 351 352 353 Jump to page Quick Navigation News Media and the Internet Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas Weekly Schedules 31st Daíl Department of Transport and Communications Department of Finance The Department of the Taoiseach Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine Department of Public Services and Reform Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources Department of Health Department of Education Department of Environment Housing Planning Department of Justice and Defence An Garda Siochána Department of Social Protection The Good Friday Agreement Irish Politics Politics of the North Information and Data Resources Irish Government Local Government in Ireland Ireland Political Parties and Groups Fine Gael The Green Party Fianna Fail Sinn Fein Amhrán Nua The Socialist Party The Labour Party Fís Nua Eirigí The Workers Party Workers Solidarity Movement Irish Liberal Party Direct Democracy Ireland The Peoples Movement The Peoples Alliance Democracy Now Spanish Irish Group Claiming Our Future Independents United Left Alliance ULA Conference 2012 Pre Conference Discussion Threads Irish Republican Socialist Party 32CSM NI21 Communist Party of Ireland The Peoples Convention WUAG Libertas Ganley CAWHT The Freeman Movement Attack the Tax Official Republican Movement Party Coalitions and Alliances The 1916 Societies CAPTA The Anti Austerity Alliance The Daíl Technical Group Republican Sinn Fein Independent Alliance Renua Traveller Groups and Issues Democratic Unionist Party SDLP Alliance Party Traditional Unionist Voice Conservative and Ulster Unionist Party RNU People Before Profit Socialist Workers Party The Pirate Party Trade Unions and Related Organisations INTO ICTU SIPTU IMPACT The Independent Workers Union Irish National Union of the Unemployed CPSU UNITE The Trade Union Left Forum Mandate Economy and Employment Ireland the EFSF and the IMF World Economy European Economy The Irish Economy Exchequer Figures and Other Irish Economic Data The IFSC and German Banks in Ireland Privatisation PPPs and Outsourcing The Irish Oligarchy NAMA The National Asset Management Agency Anglo Irish Bank Scandal Irish Banks Crisis Not inc Anglo Irish Employment and Unemployment The Irish Bank Guarantee Mortgages and Personal Debt Irish Economic Overview and Analysis Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?10714-Today-s-papers-reviewed-%28courtesy-of-newstalk-and-twitter%29/page353 (2016-02-09)
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  • Politics ~ Irish & International
    Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo County Council Local Elections 2014 Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Local Elections 2014 Mayo County Council Local Elections 2014 Southern Ireland European Parliament Elections 2014 Referendum 2013 Abolition of Senate New Court of Appeal Irish General Election 2011 General Discussion Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum The Childrens Referendum 31st Amendment Republic of Ireland Constituencies and General Election Campaign Donegal North East Constituency Forum Donegal South West Constituency Forum Dublin

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/member.php?125-DCon (2016-02-09)
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  • Political Website Traffic Stats
    Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo County Council Local Elections 2014 Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Local Elections 2014 Mayo County Council Local Elections 2014 Southern Ireland European Parliament Elections 2014 Referendum 2013 Abolition of Senate New Court of Appeal Irish General Election 2011 General Discussion Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum The Childrens Referendum 31st Amendment Republic of Ireland Constituencies and General Election Campaign Donegal North East Constituency Forum Donegal South West Constituency Forum Dublin

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?17040-Political-Website-Traffic-Stats (2016-02-09)
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  • Politics ~ Irish & International
    Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo County Council Local Elections 2014 Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Local Elections 2014 Mayo County Council Local Elections 2014 Southern Ireland European Parliament Elections 2014 Referendum 2013 Abolition of Senate New Court of Appeal Irish General Election 2011 General Discussion Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum The Childrens Referendum 31st Amendment Republic of Ireland Constituencies and General Election Campaign Donegal North East Constituency Forum Donegal South West Constituency Forum Dublin

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/member.php?1147-Count-Bobulescu (2016-02-09)
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  • TTIP - International treaties removing sovereignty
    Presidents Office of the United States Trade Representative http www ustr gov accessed on Sun 15 Jun 2014 21 24 23 0000 White House Fact Sheet Transatlantic Trade and Investment www ustr gov about us press office fact sheets 2013 june wh ttip Fact Sheet Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership T TIP Today President Obama together with European Commission President Barroso and C mon over to the capitalist s club life is so much cozier http www politicalworld org showth 9 U6hdfKiT62o As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 23 06 2014 11 44 PM 5 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty i was thinking of starting a thread on this more later Shaadi CF I did not forget abt you Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 01 42 AM 6 InfiniteDigress View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Member Join Date Feb 2014 Posts 68 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu If it s not secret please provide an official link to the full draft text not a link to a leaked version the official one To save you some time You won t find that because the draft text the treaty is kept secret Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 02 33 AM 7 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress If it s not secret please provide an official link to the full draft text not a link to a leaked version the official one To save you some time You won t find that because the draft text the treaty is kept secret Well it s pretty obvious I guess you have never negotiated any international treaties for or on behalf of anyone then Drafts have no legal standing and are subject to several legal privileges Executive Pre decisional Deliberative Process Attorney Work Product etc draft draft drahft Show IPA noun 1 a drawing sketch or design 2 a first or preliminary form of any writing subject to revision copying etc 3 act of drawing delineation When I started the other thread 18 months ago I was not dependent on Wikileaks for any info As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 05 36 AM 8 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty this appears to be a very important agreement btw parties US and EU and worth discussing at length here Recently I had the pleasure to ask the EU ambassador to the US what about secrecy of TTIP and the answer was well a bit evasive but the man is a master politician so twas really hard to read into my take from the brief interchange was there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes at the moment and some of the policy needed will be hard to implement so body language suggesting moving on vague vague although i have to admit I very much like the word concept anything really named transatlantic TTIP transatlantic trade and investment partnership does this mean a closer tighter relationship btw US EU to the point of getting down to Fiscal Policy coordination Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 10 30 AM 9 Ephilant View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Nov 2010 Posts 4 034 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty does this mean a closer tighter relationship btw US EU to the point of getting down to Fiscal Policy coordination Not sure but this is one of the things it does mean Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 11 32 AM 10 InfiniteDigress View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Member Join Date Feb 2014 Posts 68 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu Well it s pretty obvious I guess you have never negotiated any international treaties for or on behalf of anyone then Drafts have no legal standing and are subject to several legal privileges Executive Pre decisional Deliberative Process Attorney Work Product etc When I started the other thread 18 months ago I was not dependent on Wikileaks for any info Irrelevant to the point being debated secrecy Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 11 40 AM 11 InfiniteDigress View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Member Join Date Feb 2014 Posts 68 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by random new yorker does this mean a closer tighter relationship btw US EU to the point of getting down to Fiscal Policy coordination I don t believe so my take on it is that it is exporting many of the gains corporations have gained over the state in the US to Europe and is giving corporations special and highly undemocratic privileges that can be used to influence policy including fiscal policy when it comes to public services of entire countries with no democratic input from the people of those countries I believe that if this is allowed to happen it will set in place a precedent for and create a trend of handing greater power over countries and policymaking within those countries to corporations and large multinational business lobbies and in the process will remove democratic power from the public which if that becomes the trend will incrementally erode democracy over time Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 01 31 PM 12 Slim Buddha View Profile View Forum Posts Banned Join Date Mar 2010 Location Dublin North West the leading constituency Posts 5 881 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress There s a good article here on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Parternship treaty being negotiated at the moment and how this is going to lock in the removal of countries sovereignty and pave the way to the gradual elimination of many public services as well as prevent the implementation of regulations that are needed to prevent the financial banking industry from continuing to damage and then pillage economies countries http www nakedcapitalism com 2014 ratocracy html International treaties like this seem to be particularly pernicious in that they are negotiated in near complete secrecy and are effectively a form of lawmaking that is imposed upon countries in a way which almost completely sidesteps the democratic process giving corporations significant power over entire countries That this is being negotiated at a European level also immediately puts it further out of reach of the democratic process in our own country With treaties like this the extent of our public services and regulations and much of our lawmaking relating to this will be subject to the dictat of an international arbitrartion panel which is a small and easily corruptible panel of experts who can easily be cherry picked into supporting a judgment that is corporate friendly this would almost completely sidestep both our political and judicial systems It s my view that these international treaties are one of the biggest threats to democracy that exist today and that part of their aim will be to permanently secure in place political and economic conditions that lead to recurring economic crisis and subsequent pillaging of economies and worsening of income inequality worldwide 1 These are nothing new Our very own Peter Suds Sutherland oversaw the Uruguay Round as General Secretary of GATT which lead to the signing of GATT in 1994 TWENTY years ago This was quickly followed a year later by the GATS Agreement and the TRIPS Agreement amd of course the establishment of the WTO to administer theis new and now swelling body of law This process is ongoing and gathers momentum with noting in the way to stop it The WTO is the Rottweiler which keep governments cowed Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 04 47 PM 13 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress I don t believe so my take on it is that it is exporting many of the gains corporations have gained over the state in the US to Europe and is giving corporations special and highly undemocratic privileges that can be used to influence policy including fiscal policy when it comes to public services of entire countries with no democratic input from the people of those countries I believe that if this is allowed to happen it will set in place a precedent for and create a trend of handing greater power over countries and policymaking within those countries to corporations and large multinational business lobbies and in the process will remove democratic power from the public which if that becomes the trend will incrementally erode democracy over time 100 on Why this is Important Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 09 51 PM 14 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress Irrelevant to the point being debated secrecy Jayzus that s a great answer altogether I wish I had thought of that first You complain about secrecy I explain that drafts can be subject to privilege that keep them secret and you say that s irrelevant to secrecy How so Fill in the blanks here We re spiraling down into Alice in Wonderland s Mad Hatter s Tea Party territory here I say what I mean and I mean what I say I think said Alice A Deliberative Process Privilege Reporters Committee for www rcfp org privileges Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press Deliberative Process Privilege One frequently cited Exemption 5 privilege is that which protects the deliberative process This privilege protects documents reflecting advisory opinions recommendations and deliberations comprising part of a process by which governmental decisions and policies are formulated 49 The exemption is intended to preserve the quality of agency decisions by encourage ing open frank discussions on matters of policy protect ing against premature disclosure of proposed policies before they are finally adopted and protect ing against public confusion that might result from disclosure of reasons and rationale that were not in fact ultimately the grounds for an agency s action 50 An agency withholding records under this privilege has the burden of proving that the materials are both predecisional and deliberative so you should challenge both points on appeal 51 Additionally you may argue that even if the privilege might arguably apply the government has waived its right to invoke Exemption 5 Scholarly articles for pre decisional deliberative process privilege As i ve already noted there is no shortage of material on the TTIP The claims of secrecy are being made by a bunch of anti globalization anti corporate anti imperial nit wits half wits numbskulls malcontents bird brains and other scurvy knaves unable to articulate any coherent alternative Opponents claim that the agreement would permit corporations to sue the government as if that were somehow a disaster We don t see any counter claim that the agreement would prevent governments from suing corporations So by default the opponents would permit governments to sue corporations but prevent the reverse That s fundamentally in conflict with the US 1st Amendment which permits citizens including corporations to petition the government for a redress of grievances If you think any US politician will sign on to forfeiting that I have many bridges for sale Sue the Government Slip and fall in a post office Injured in a traffic accident involving an FBI agent Medical malpractice by a Veterans Administration doctor These are only a few examples of the potential negligence claims against the federal government If you have a claim against the feds often your only option is to sue the federal government under the Federal Tort Claims Act FTCA Unfortunately suing the federal government under the FTCA is trickier than suing a private citizen you will have to jump through a number of hoops and the lawsuits are subject to a lengthy and sometimes confusing list of limitations Sued by the gorvenment The federal government via both the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission can bring civil lawsuits enforcing the laws The United States Department of Justice alone may bring criminal antitrust suits under federal antitrust laws 33 Perhaps the most famous antitrust enforcement actions brought by the federal government were the break up of AT T s local telephone service monopoly in the early 1980s 34 and its actions against Microsoft in the late 1990s George Monbiot in his article on the negotiations for a Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership claims the European commission has tried to keep this process quiet Chickens in chlorine It s what free trade s about 3 December This is laughable Every step of these negotiations has been publicly announced and widely reported in the press The commission has regularly consulted a broad range of civil society organisations in writing and in person and our most recent meeting had 350 participants from trade unions NGOs and business You re wrong George Monbiot there is nothing secret about this EU trade dea Here s some more evidence that it s not being conducted in secret If it were in secret we wouldn t know about it Schulz on TTIP There will be no secret negotiations EurActiv TTIP Timeline all events and meetings up till now U S Objectives U S Benefits In the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership A Detailed View Fact Sheet United States to Negotiate Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with the European Union U S International Trade Commission Releases Report on How T TIP Will Benefit Small Businesses Negotiators meet for the fourth round of Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership T TIP talks Statement By USTR Michael Froman at the Close of the Fourth Round Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership Negotiations Transcript Chief Negotiators Mullaney and Bercero Hold Press Conference Following the 4Th Round of T TIP Talks Statement by U S Trade Representative Froman on the Conclusion of the Fifth Round of T TIP Negotiations As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 24 06 2014 11 35 PM 15 InfiniteDigress View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Member Join Date Feb 2014 Posts 68 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu Again mostly irrelevant fluff except now you are defending the secrecy of the treaty until it is final and already adopted as you quote protect ing against premature disclosure of proposed policies before they are finally adopted Which is precisely part of the problem people have with the negotiation process Reply With Quote Page 1 of 18 1 2 3 11 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation Global Politics Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas Weekly Schedules 31st Daíl Department of Transport and Communications Department of Finance The Department of the Taoiseach Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine Department of Public Services and Reform Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources Department of Health Department of Education Department of Environment Housing Planning Department of Justice and Defence An Garda Siochána Department of Social Protection The Good Friday Agreement Irish Politics Politics of the North Information and Data Resources Irish Government Local Government in Ireland Ireland Political Parties and Groups Fine Gael The Green Party Fianna Fail Sinn Fein Amhrán Nua The Socialist Party The Labour Party Fís Nua Eirigí The Workers Party Workers Solidarity Movement Irish Liberal Party Direct Democracy Ireland The Peoples Movement The Peoples Alliance Democracy Now Spanish Irish Group Claiming Our Future Independents United Left Alliance ULA Conference 2012 Pre Conference Discussion Threads Irish Republican Socialist Party 32CSM NI21 Communist Party of Ireland The Peoples Convention WUAG Libertas Ganley CAWHT The Freeman Movement Attack the Tax Official Republican Movement Party Coalitions and Alliances The 1916 Societies CAPTA The Anti Austerity Alliance The Daíl Technical Group Republican Sinn Fein Independent Alliance Renua Traveller Groups and Issues Democratic Unionist Party SDLP Alliance Party Traditional Unionist Voice Conservative and Ulster Unionist Party RNU People Before Profit Socialist Workers Party The Pirate Party Trade Unions and Related Organisations INTO ICTU SIPTU IMPACT The Independent Workers Union Irish National Union of the Unemployed CPSU UNITE The Trade Union Left Forum Mandate Economy and Employment Ireland the EFSF and the IMF World Economy European Economy The Irish Economy Exchequer Figures and Other Irish Economic Data The IFSC and German Banks in Ireland Privatisation PPPs and Outsourcing The Irish Oligarchy NAMA The National Asset Management Agency Anglo Irish Bank Scandal Irish Banks Crisis Not inc Anglo Irish Employment and Unemployment The Irish Bank Guarantee Mortgages and Personal Debt Irish Economic Overview and Analysis Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?16095-TTIP-International-treaties-removing-sovereignty (2016-02-09)
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  • TTIP - International treaties removing sovereignty - Page 2
    goes on to reveal that such gains will only be felt after 2027 and only if a comprehensive agreement is reached meaning that half of all actionable NTBs are removed which is highly unrealistic A number of esteemed economists believe political leaders are overstating the positives which in reality may only amount to 0 05 increase in GDP in the EU Watch Monitor s report on TTIP s numbers fairytale RNY completely agree Left out was WHICH social strata countries EU families will benefit No dis to the Greens I support many though not all of their policies but by definition their focus expertize is in a different area Their 1 reason It s not about trade Seriously Here s the top five reasons in favor from The Atlantic Council a TT whose focus has been international affairs since the early 60 s And you can read the alternative arguments at the link at bottom TTIP Top 5 Hopes and Prospects Why is TTIP so crucial Heralded by many as the most important trade agreement in history TTIP is an unprecedented opportunity for the West to out do the rest of the world Its proponents see it as the vehicle that can drive transatlantic trade and investment to a whole new level leaving global rivals with no choice but to look to the West as the standard setters Nothing less than a comprehensive deal will put our markets back into the ascendency invigorating global trade along with it 1 Direct Economic Impact The economic prospects for transatlantic economies following the adoption of TTIP will be for its proponents significant The removal of tariffs will bring an immediate increase in profits and the harmonization of regulatory frameworks will mean businesses large and small will have greater market reach on the other side of the Atlantic bringing more trade investment and ultimately prosperity In an independent report drawn up by The UK Centre for Economic Research CFER endorsed by the EU Commission it is claimed that on the individual level An ambitious and comprehensive transatlantic trade and investment agreement could bring significant economic gains as a whole for the EU 119 billion a year and US 95 billion a year This translates to an extra 545 in disposable income each year for a family of 4 in the EU on average and 655 per family in the US On national and international trade the report states EU exports to the US would go up by 28 equivalent to an additional 187 billion worth of exports of EU goods and services Overall total exports would increase 6 in the EU and 8 in the US On the global level Liberalizing trade between the EU and the US would have a positive impact on worldwide trade and incomes increasing global income by almost 100 billion 2 Stimulus and Recovery Following the global financial crash of 2008 the Eurozone debt crisis and the failure of trade talks at the World Trade Organization WTO transatlantic trade needs to be stimulated or face economic stagnation Rather than continue on the current course of austerity and negligible growth TTIP is seen as an important measure to put the Western economies back into primary global positions Katinka Barysch and Michael Heise of Yale Global argue TTIP is the result of the WTO s troubles not the cause of it The Doha round of trade talks has dragged on for 12 years and has fell short of its original ambitions The WTO has not significantly updated its rulebook since 1994 But business has moved on The idea from the US and the EU to work together to overcome global gridlock is legitimate In many areas regulations and processes on both sides of the Atlantic have been drifting apart for years and even more so since the start of the financial crisis in 2007 The two sides owe it to their business communities and consumers to try and narrow the regulatory gap Bilateral talks are probably better suited for this than involving the other 130 WTO members EU Trade Spokesman John Clancy argues that those who argue for TTIP to be stopped would condemn Western economies to painfully slow progress Many critics of TTIP he argues are actually arguing for us to maintain the status quo which is at the heart of the problem The EU Commission maintains therefore that TTIP would be the cheapest stimulus package imaginable 3 The Standard Setter Another hope is that TTIP will provide the transatlantic community with global economic and political soft power and balance the rise of global rivals Facing competition from external economic centers of power TTIP could be a game changer both economically and politically according to senior research fellow at the Dutch Clingedael Institute Peter von Ham The rise of China and other Asian countries combined with the relative decline of the US and economic malaise of the Eurozone is spurring the transatlantic West to use its combined economic and political preponderance to write new global trade rules reflecting its economic principles rules based market economy and political values liberal democracy TTIP is an essential component of this new strategy The Atlantic Council of America s report on TTIP s benefits to the US also argues that Beyond pure economics TTIP also represents a key strategic opportunity for the EU and US A truly ambitious game changing agreement has the potential to send a powerful message to the rest of the world regarding transatlantic commitment to the development of global rules and standards TTIP would therefore not only heighten the economic and regulatory power of the transatlantic partnership it would renew its geopolitical position US economist Kimberly Amadeo argues that if the US and EU could iron out their differences they could stand as a united front against market threats from the rest of the world 4 A Fresh Impetus for Multilateral Trade Talks It is widely accepted that WTO multilateral trade talks have failed to make significant headway in recent years However in December 2013 WTO members in Bali came to an agreement on reducing global trade costs by 10 for developed countries and 15 for developing countries which is the first time that all WTO member states were able to come to an agreement since the 1994 Uruguay agreement that created the organization itself This agreement incidentally was agreed shortly after the announcement of TTIP Now many argue that bilateral trade agreements such as TTIP may be a hindrance to the efficacy of the WTO Yet as Brett McGee of the Atlantic Council argues Bali illustrates the opposite When threatened by competition the WTO actually stepped up Negotiators went into overdrive made important and reasonable compromises and agreed on a package which will make trade easier cheaper and more effective At a recent panel discussion at the German Council of Foreign Relations Dr Stormy Annika Mildner Managing Director or the Association of German Industry assured attendees that TTIP would aim to give the WTO a push rather than hurt it Rather than complicating regulatory rules the agreement aims to simplify existing rules that can act as the benchmark for fresh multilateral initiatives 5 Defense Although it is likely that defense will not be included in negotiations TTIP could provide the driving force behind a deeper and more integrated transatlantic defense market Steve Williams suggests that TTIP would create a favorable environment from which greater defense cooperation could emerge Academic Daniel Fiott in his article on TTIP and its impact on defense asserts that Any TTIP extending to the defense sector will raise questions about the nature of the European Defense Technological and Industrial Base and crucially how it impacts the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the Common Security and Defense Policy Leo Michel of the Atlantic Council has reported that in line with the projected growth predicted by the UK CFER If the 28 EU members simply were to keep their current average rate of defense spending roughly 1 5 percent of GDP the projected TTIP boost could produce an extra 2 2 5 billion annually or 20 25 billion over a decade for military capabilities He also notes that proponents hope the TTIP will knock down various US legal and administrative obstacles to a more balanced transatlantic defense industrial trade and technology partnerships Summary For its supporters the jewel in TTIP s crown is the vastly expanded and deepened trade and especially investment that it will bring The benefits for companies both large and small would be tremendous This process can signal the resurgence of Western power through revitalized markets As a consequence the transatlantic economic values can carry more weight when considering global trade See the other side of the argument here http www atlantic community org and prospects As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 25 06 2014 08 39 PM 21 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress Your own quote shows that the contents of the treaty is secret until it has already been adopted which yes given that you ve effectively debunked yourself makes pretty much the rest of all your posts irrelevant wrangling and insults which I have no need to waste my time with That s just so fundamentally wrong conspiracy theory stuff that I ll again reluctantly raise the issue that I raised with you in the other thread Are you just simply t r o l l i n g The treaty is not adopted until it is first ratified It is not ratified until it is first debated by EU US parliaments It not debated until its contents are first known Its contents are not known until any drafts are converted into specific proposals Specific proposals are not arrived at until the parties agree that their negotiations are concluded Negotiations are not scheduled to conclude until 2015 Q E D As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 25 06 2014 09 06 PM 22 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty QUOTE Pearse Monnet 390713 I don t really understand your beef with Julian Assuage Is it because what he does embarrasses the elites in the Western World And exposes the lie that the Free World isn t really so I ve been over this ground with others on PW several times before Only the innocent and or naive believe that Wikileaks has done only good See the comments below of someone who has been in the business of revealing secrets long before Wikileaks arrived Assange may have set back by decades FOIA gains that were hard won The debate is a lot more complex than many of the shortsighted in Europe seem to realize Although there is largely an agreement about the value of leaked information the strategies tactics and mistakes of WikiLeaks have gained critics It has also been questioned if the impact of the leaks will lead in an opposite direction than was expected towards more secrecy and increasing restrictions Stephen Aftergood director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy comments It has invaded personal privacy It has published libellous material It has violated intellectual property rights And above all it has launched a sweeping attack not simply on corruption but on secrecy itself And I think that s both a strategic and a tactical error It s a strategic error because some secrecy is perfectly legitimate and desirable It s a tactical error because it has unleashed a furious response from the US government and other governments that I fear is likely to harm the interests of a lot of other people besides WikiLeaks who are concerned with open government It may become harder to support protection for people who disclose and publish classified information after WikiLeaks Altogether debate on WikiLeaks has become very complex There seems to be a pressure on taking sides for or against WikiLeaks or giving statements for them However it will require an analytic discussion to recognize both pros and cons in their activities If you are so smitten with the United Corporate States of America then I wonder is it worth the bother rowing into this My own reservations about the TTIP If I could paraphrase an Americanism its about democracy stupid In short these agreements represent the continued erosion of democracy Power is being concentrated in the hands of smaller and smaller groups of people But I forget having concern about the decisions made in powerful groups of people makes me What was the word Ah yes a ne er do well got it I should just go back to sleep and leave all the decisions to vested interests and have another beer and to hell with it break out into song as well Everything is fine What s on teley now No they don t Treaties and agreements are even older than democracy by about 1 500 years To erode democracy you have to take away the right to a specific vote action property that was previously permitted You don t like something and so you just blithely toss out the claim that it is an erosion of democracy without any factual evidence to support your claim But that s a pretty common practice here on PW There was a televised hearing of the Public Accounts Committee in the mid 90s of some scandal or other I recorded it can t quite recall of the top of my head what it was possible the Sheehy affair But no matter it s been done The various Judicial Tribunals held in Dublin Castle were open to the public I know because I was there There were some of those sessions I wouldn t have missed for all the bullion in Switzerland I attended several sessions of the Goodman Beef Tribunal in the early 90 s myself The room had a capacity for about 300 There were rarely more than 50 in the room and most of them were law firm employees Governments as opposed to corporations are democratically accountable or should I say are more democratically accountable Why shouldn t a government be able to sue a corporation If governments sue corporations and put themselves fundamentally in conflict with the US 1st Amendment I couldn t give a hoot The US government does not have jurisdiction over the entire planet well not yet anyway I never claimed a government couldn t or shouldn t sue a corporation What I said was that the opponents of the treaties favored a regime that would prevent corporations from suing governments a right they currently enjoy Now that s a real erosion of democracy I m not in the slightest bit surprised that you don t give a hoot That s par for the course with many on PW Each state negotiating bilateral trade agreements with each other which are discussed and analysed by an informed public I really am curious as to know why the concept of democracy is literally so repugnant As I ve already noted there s no bar to discussion and analysis by an informed public once there is something concrete to debate Each EU state negotiating a bilateral trade treaty with the US is inimical to the principles of the EU just as it also is for any individual US state at the other end Your politics are anti EU and so you are knee jerk scrambling to oppose anything they might support irrespective of the merits As to your false belief that I find democracy repugnant that appears to stem from your misunderstanding of the concept and limitations of democracy Worthless in terms of oversight Remember the leaders of the EU were prepared to ride rough shod over the Irish peoples say in referendums not once but TWICE Doesn t fill me with hope Give me a practical example of what you would consider worthwhile oversight Spell it out As to your claim of the EU riding roughshod over the votes of the Irish people in a referendum That just demonstrates your lack of understanding of how the institutions of democracy work Electorates sometimes do stupid things that the courts have to remedy or cure Case in point In 2008 56 of California voters approved an amendment to the State Constitution that created a ban on Gay Marriage that was not previously there In 2013 the US Supreme Court said fc k democracy and the California voters they had no right to do that And I m about to post new info on that very topic from today in the Gay thread Don t get so agitated Your false teeth might fall out I m not agitated I rarely get agitated but when I do As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 25 06 2014 09 12 PM 23 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Took another look at the article cited in the OP It doesn t mention the sovereignty issue of the thread title and it s not even about the TTIP To the degree that it s about anything specific at all its about the TISA The Wikileaks document referenced concerns TISA not TTIP There is no mention of a Wikileaks document on TTIP The article makes the broad claim that TTIP will alter the ownership of every public service in the US and EU and backs up that claim with zero specifics

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    and pork treated with ractopomine from the US enter the EU market The widespread use of antibiotics on US farms is also worrying Such harmful processes could negatively impact the food industry as such food is produced more cheaply and at a lower quality However US negotiators at the behest of US corporations continue to push for these products to be included in TTIP The agreement could also make it much harder for EU member states to make up their own mind on accepting GMO crops for example Many organisations in the US do not want to export its broken food system to the EU and are doing what they can to reverse agri industry trends of mass production of sub standard food Read 10 reasons why TTIP is bad for good food and farming US Institute for Agriculture and Trade Read Trade Matters TTIP and its impacts on food and farming Center for Food Safety 23 Because negotiation means trade offs between grossly different things The Commission is preparing for give and take concessions as part of these talks meaning we are likely to lose some battles in order to gain wins in other chapters So although we aim to protect our food standards nothing is off the table in negotiations The EU hopes to gain more in procurement which may mean sacrifices in agriculture according to Hiddo Houben an EU official in the trade and agriculture section of the delegation in Washington who said in April We are I think at least in political terms going to be giving more in agriculture than we get and in procurement we are hoping to get more that we give because our market is more open today At least that s what we would argue The Greens have legitimate concerns that this approach could see key EU standards pawned off for other gains in transatlantic trade 24 Because it could freeze progress on new safety standards for harmful chemicals Recent revelations by the Center for International Environmental Law and ClientEarth suggest that the chemical industry on both sides of the Atlantic have teamed up to exploit regulatory differences between the two parties to slow regulatory developments at all levels prevent the regulation of endocrine disrupting chemicals EDCs and obstruct efforts to promote substitution of all harmful substances with safer alternatives They believe that such proposals could freeze progress in regulating toxic chemicals create an industry bypass around democracy give commercial interests and trade precedence over the protection of human health and the environment stifle innovation in safer chemicals and Impede global action on toxic chemicals Not a particularly citizen friendly list Read Toxic partnership A critique of the ACC CEFIC proposal for trans Atlantic cooperation on chemicals CIEL ClientEarth Read NGOs fear TTIP clauses will affect EU chemicals regulation Euractiv 25 Because access to affordable medicine is a human right Campaigners are concerned that the pharmaceutical industry s wish list for TTIP will undermine public health policy and negatively impact citizen s access to affordable medicine Drug companies are hoping to expand periods of monopoly through patents and other intellectual property measures while there are suggestions that it aims to undermine regulations set by European Member States to protect public health Such moves are not in the public interest and will could increase the cost of medicines At a recent conference Dr Margaret Chan WHO Director General is quoted discussing TTIP and TPP saying If these agreements open trade yet close access to affordable medicines we have to ask is this really progress at all 26 Because corporate law firms are cashing in The number of investor claims against states has exploded in recent years with a few dozen in the early 90s to nearly 600 cases in 2013 alone According to Corporate Europe Observatory this has been great news for some of the biggest corporate law firms in the world as the number of investor state disputes has grown investment arbitration has become a money making machine in its own right Today there are a number of law firms and arbitrators whose business model depends on companies suing states Hence they are constantly encouraging their corporate clients to sue for example when a country adopts measures to fight an economic crisis We don t believe law firms should be profiting through corporate attempts to halt a country s right to legislate 27 Because we don t need more deregulation in the financial sector The EU are pushing for the inclusion regulatory cooperation for financial services in TTIP a move strongly resisted by the US US negotiators believe the inclusion of financial services regulation may risk watering down new standards set by the 2010 Dodd Frank law aimed at enhancing oversight and stability of the US financial system We Greens fully support the Dodd Frank law and are against attempts to undermine such financial regulation With Europe edging out of an economic crisis we strongly oppose the inclusion of regulatory cooperation of financial services in TTIP which at present could only result in weakening regulation and oversight on both sides of the Atlantic This is not in the best interest of citizens in Europe or the US At a time when we should be doing all in our power to steady our financial systems the last thing we need is to expose either side of the Atlantic to more undue risk 28 Because our leaders are ignoring citizen concerns Although controversy over TTIP continues to build our political leaders remain committed to pursuing a comprehensive agreement with David Cameron calling it a once in a generation prize Hundreds of open letters from civil society remain unaddressed Calls for transparency have largely fallen on deaf ears as Members of the Council were unwilling to make the EU TTIP mandate public in May Meanwhile the Commission seems adamant to suppress public opposition as seen with the unprecedented arrests of over 250 peaceful protestors at an anti TTIP demonstration in Brussels recently including a number of Green Parliamentary assistants The Greens will continue to work to hold our leaders to account on TTIP and work to ensure these issues are not ignored 29 Because resistance is growing and it needs our support In recent months we ve reported the growing grassroots campaigns in Italy Belgium Germany as well as campaigns in France and the UK With so many issues at risk under TTIP the Greens have made it a priority to tackle these issues head on But there s still a lot to do to build awareness amongst citizens across Europe and the US 30 Because if you won t take our word for it perhaps these organisations might convince you Hundreds of civil society organisations NGOs trade unions consumer groups and watchdogs are also raising their concerns on both sides of the Atlantic As we have showcased TTIP raises legitimate and substantial worries on a wide variety of issues that could impact your daily life Here are just some of the organisations actively working on TTIP Reply With Quote 26 06 2014 04 38 AM 35 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by C Flower The idea of there being any meaningful debate on this in the Oireachtas is beyond conception The only hope would be a legal action on Constitutional grounds Tell that to Pearse Monnet he thinks an informed Irish public would be better positioned to make a decision I suspect he would want a referendum on the color of the paint to be used in every public building That s an Irish problem nothing to do with EU US If the Oireachtas is incapable of carrying out its constitutional functions then the electorate should be grateful that the EU is available as a backstop As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 26 06 2014 04 39 AM 36 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty RNY 34 Thanks there s a lot there I ll take a look tomorrow As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 26 06 2014 08 03 AM 37 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu Tell that to Pearse Monnet he thinks an informed Irish public would be better positioned to make a decision I suspect he would want a referendum on the color of the paint to be used in every public building That s an Irish problem nothing to do with EU US If the Oireachtas is incapable of carrying out its constitutional functions then the electorate should be grateful that the EU is available as a backstop The EU as a democratic forum Hilarious notion We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 26 06 2014 03 12 PM 38 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by C Flower The EU as a democratic forum Hilarious notion agree w Count re EU backstop and starting to lose hope here Reply With Quote 27 06 2014 09 08 PM 39 fluffybiscuits View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2011 Location hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer Posts 13 464 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by InfiniteDigress I don t believe so my take on it is that it is exporting many of the gains corporations have gained over the state in the US to Europe and is giving corporations special and highly undemocratic privileges that can be used to influence policy including fiscal policy when it comes to public services of entire countries with no democratic input from the people of those countries I believe that if this is allowed to happen it will set in place a precedent for and create a trend of handing greater power over countries and policymaking within those countries to corporations and large multinational business lobbies and in the process will remove democratic power from the public which if that becomes the trend will incrementally erode democracy over time Concise analysis there Forgive me but this area is not a strong issue of mine Irelands laws are strongly influenced by lobbyists and with that Ireland is bringing in a register of lobbyists The Standards in Public Office afaik were recently recruiting for a Register of Lobbyists In April just gone there was a report released which said that 120m was spent lobbying the EU in Brussels out of all these groups twenty of them were Irish Removing decision making from the people and the democratic institutions they use to represent them serves only the interests of the elite Secrey that surrounds these meetings should act as a reminder of the Bilderberg meetings secret meetings of people who claim they are not looking to influence government More attention must be paid to lobbyists and why are they seek to influence govt policy Edit That link on lobby groups http www irishexaminer com busines eu 265048 html History is the only true teacher the revolution the best school for the proletariat Rosa Luxembourg Reply With Quote 27 06 2014 11 34 PM 40 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re TTIP International treaties removing sovereignty Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu RNY 34 Thanks there s a lot there I ll take a look tomorrow While I was reading the list of thirty before I had even got to the end I was struck by the amount of repetition I think that in an attempt to draw up a long list the Greens have spread themselves too thin They would be better off with 5 10 good objections rather than a long list of 30 half assed ones Below I ve taken excerpts from 6 15 and written a brief rebuttal I didn t bother with the rest but I m sure if I had to do it I could easily manage it You get the picture My comments in blue below 6 Because the promise of jobs is dishonest The EU is desperate to find solutions to the ongoing job crisis Although the effects of TTIP may not be felt for over a decade it is being oversold as the answer to all of Europe s problems I ve not seen anyone make that claim It would be irresponsible 7 Because investors will be able to sue states for laws they dislike EU US subsidiaries operating in each other s regions amount to 75 000 leaving many to believe that such ISDS lawsuits could be come a regular fixture under TTIP threatening government s ability to legislate Speculative 8 Because corporations will get a chance to screen future legislation Scaremongering It happens already without TTIP 9 Because it formalises never ending negotiations Circumstances change the world changes new technology gets invented 10 Because it threatens governments right to make decisions And so does virtually every EU law already enacted Solution revoke all EU laws and disband EU I don t think so 11 Because it is already negatively impacting EU decision making Claims made and facts asserted but no link to TTIP established 12 Because taxpayers will foot the bill Taxpayers which includes corporations always foot the bill Two certainties in life death and taxes 13 Because industry demands are pretty scary Not suggesting corporations should have free rein but this is simple anti corporatism scaremongering 14 Because addressing climate change needs to be taken seriously In May 2014 the Huffington Post revealed a draft EU negotiating text calling for the US export of coal crude oil oil products natural gas whether liquefied or not and electrical energy under TTIP Climate activists worry the deal could lock both sides of the Atlantic into continued and intensified fossil fuel use impeding the move to much needed renewable energy sources Just this week US Congress voted to fast track LNG exports and the Obama admin loosened the rules on exporting oil petroleum Neither of these required or are directly linked to TTIP They happened without TTIP which would neither help or hinder 15 Because workers could bear the brunt Because the world is hot flat and crowded workers will bear the brunt with or without TTIP Here are the top 5 objections as identified by the Atlantic Council TTIP Top 5 Concerns and Criticism Why should TTIP be stopped in its tracks Fears over corporations holding sovereign governments to ransom over the dissolution of public health services over the flooding of genetically enhanced meat into Europe are all part of a long list being drawn up by those who want nothing more than the breakdown of TTIP negotiations Critics also point to a major gap between the interests of the consumer and the interest of corporations as a result of the secret lobbying of Brussels 1 Investment Protection Arguably the most concerning aspect of TTIP for many critics is the so called Investor State Dispute Settlement ISDS mechanism which is likley to be built into the agreement This mechanism gives companies the capacity to take legal action against states which they perceive are hindering potential profits The Corporate Europe Observatory states that this mechanism will Enable US companies investing in Europe to challenge EU governments directly at private international tribunals whenever they find that changes in law in the area of public health consumer environmental or social protection interfere with their profits EU companies investing abroad would have the same privilege in the US As a result of this measure according to a report by the Seattle to Brussels Network S2B it is possible that the simple threat of a costly legal dispute would be sufficient to prevent governments from enacting progressive legislation in the future a serious drawback for any political system that wishes to appear democratic The ISDS is a massive Trojan Horse says MEP Yannick Jadot the Greens trade spokesperson in the European Parliament which can used by multinational corporations to whittle away EU standards and regulations across a range of policies 2 Impact on National Life The concern is that these powers would jeopardize well entrenched national laws and regulations Frances O Grady of the UK s Trade Union Congress TUC for example is concerned that deregulation and corporate rights could mean the gradual privatization of the UK s National Health Service NHS The clauses of ISDS could thwart attempts by a future government to bring our health service back towards public ownership In Germany there is a strong opposition to the potential influx of Genetically Modified Organisms GMOs in foodstuffs due to TTIP deregulation Jonathan Benson of Natural News advises us that Of primary concern is the EU where regulators have been busy fighting off aggressive biotechnology interests that are hell bent on forcing public acceptance of GMOs Under TTIP so called regulatory barriers that leaked drafts have dubbed unnecessary would be lifted in order to take advantage of the untapped potential of a truly transatlantic market place Among these alleged barriers are current EU restrictions on GMOs which the European public has made very clear it does not want in its food supply According to the French minister of foreign trade Nicole Bricq France is the country where the mobilization against what they call

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  • TTIP - International treaties removing sovereignty - Page 18
    against an unprecedented expansion of ISDS liability via TPP TTIP CETA Foreign investors launched more ISDS cases in 2015 than in any prior year twice the number launched just five years earlier Foreign investors have launched more ISDS cases in each of the last five years than in the first three decades of the ISDS system combined The newest data show more than 50 cases in each of the last five years while fewer than 50 cases were launched total before 2000 To date foreign investors have launched nearly 700 cases against more than 100 governments It s 696 cases against 107 governments 52 of concluded ISDS cases have ended in an outright loss for the government or a settlement with the foreign investor All of the above of course excludes cases that are not publicly known Only when the last tree has died the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we cannot eat money We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors we borrow it from our children Reply With Quote Page 18 of 18 First 8 16 17 18 Jump to page Quick Navigation Global Politics Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas Weekly Schedules 31st Daíl Department of Transport and Communications Department of Finance The Department of the Taoiseach Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine Department of Public Services and Reform Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources Department of Health Department of Education Department of Environment Housing Planning Department of Justice and Defence An Garda Siochána Department of Social Protection The Good Friday Agreement Irish Politics Politics of the North Information and Data Resources Irish Government Local Government in Ireland Ireland Political Parties and Groups Fine Gael The Green Party Fianna Fail Sinn Fein Amhrán Nua The Socialist Party The Labour Party Fís Nua Eirigí The Workers Party Workers Solidarity Movement Irish Liberal Party Direct Democracy Ireland The Peoples Movement The Peoples Alliance Democracy Now Spanish Irish Group Claiming Our Future Independents United Left Alliance ULA Conference 2012 Pre Conference Discussion Threads Irish Republican Socialist Party 32CSM NI21 Communist Party of Ireland The Peoples Convention WUAG Libertas Ganley CAWHT The Freeman Movement Attack the Tax Official Republican Movement Party Coalitions and Alliances The 1916 Societies CAPTA The Anti Austerity Alliance The Daíl Technical Group Republican Sinn Fein Independent Alliance Renua Traveller Groups and Issues Democratic Unionist Party SDLP Alliance Party Traditional Unionist Voice Conservative and Ulster Unionist Party RNU People Before Profit Socialist Workers Party The Pirate Party Trade Unions and Related Organisations INTO ICTU SIPTU IMPACT

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