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  • Politics ~ Irish & International
    Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo County Council Local Elections 2014 Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Local Elections 2014 Mayo County Council Local Elections 2014 Southern Ireland European Parliament Elections 2014 Referendum 2013 Abolition of Senate New Court of Appeal Irish General Election 2011 General Discussion Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum The Childrens Referendum 31st Amendment Republic of Ireland Constituencies and General Election Campaign Donegal North East Constituency Forum Donegal South West Constituency Forum Dublin

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/member.php?1748-New-Vision (2016-02-09)
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  • Schäuble's Europe - Where did it come from? Where is it going?
    union for example by strengthening the European Commission and the European Parliament But that means that member states must give up even more sovereignty They have already taken this step when it comes to monetary policy but are they also prepared to transfer financial policy competencies for example to the European level Many have a problem with that SPIEGEL French President François Hollande has proposed installing a euro zone finance minister and placing him or her under the supervision of a euro zone parliamentary body Schäuble I am also in favor of a euro zone finance minister but to install one the European treaties must be amended first I was pleased to hear from President Hollande that France is now prepared to do so SPIEGEL Are you pleased that suddenly everyone in Europe is in favor of increased integration Schäuble Of course but I am also aware that the experiences of recent years have not made it easier to advocate for more Europe Still I m not giving up I am a realist which is why I am unable to assert that we can only save the euro if we amend the treaties We may have to do without What is essential is that rules are followed and enforced But when we do that then we are accused of establishing a protectorate or abolishing democracy That is all nonsense Also quite a good and more balanced piece here There is a new tone in Germany It is one that no longer abides by the noble customs of diplomacy Whispering suggesting and hinting have been replaced by ranting and blustering Here is what this new tone sounds like coming out of the mouth of German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble Of Greece he said that a country that for decades has suffered and lived far beyond its means due to the failure of its elite not because of Europe not because of Brussels and not because of Berlin but exclusively because of the failure of its elite has to slowly come back to reality And when those responsible in this country lie to their people it s not surprising that the people react as they have He made the comments last Monday at an event hosted by the center right foundation Konrad Adenauer Stiftung Triumphalism The day before Bavarian Finance Minister Markus Söder sounded similarly aggressive during an appearance on a German talk show with Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis He didn t miss a single opportunity to gloat about Bavaria s economic and financial strength Volker Kauder the conservatives floor leader in German parliament is the author of a particularly triumphalist example of the new tone uttered way back in 2011 At a party conference of Merkel s Christian Democrats in Leipzig Kauder said in a speech Suddenly German is being spoken in Europe Though CDU delegates loved it the sentence was not well received further afield and Kauder now says he wouldn t repeat it Merkel of course would never adopt such a tone at least not publicly She is more careful her utterances sometimes so twisted that it isn t immediately obvious what she is trying to say Last Tuesday she told conservative parliamentarians in Berlin that Germany must be a country that doesn t leave anything untried in the search for progress She meant progress elsewhere in Greece The chancellor has an expansive project that is to ultimately result one could say tongue in cheek in a Merkel Reich She isn t nearly as focused on Europe as her predecessor Helmut Kohl who wanted to see Germany dissolve into the European Union Merkel thinks more in nation state terms but she knows that Germany alone will have little influence on the world Countries that want to have a say must have a large population and a strong economy Germany has the latter but relative to China or the US lacks the former which is why Germany needs populous Europe But it must be a competitive economically powerful Europe and that is what Merkel is working toward Early on in the euro crisis she developed ideas for so called bench marking The concept called for European countries to be measured in several categories against the best in that category which was often Germany In this way a German Europe would be created In the battle against the debt crisis in Ireland Spain Portugal Cyprus and Greece Europe considered two different approaches The southern countries wanted to stimulate growth through increased spending in the hope that state revenues would climb Germany and northern European countries by contrast preferred cost cutting and structural reforms an approach that made significant demands of the citizens of the countries affected The economically powerful Germany got its way In order to put the struggling countries on the right track on the German track that is Merkel brought in the International Monetary Fund so as to free Germany from having to play the strict overseer Still it has not escaped notice that Berlin is in charge Reply With Quote 20 07 2015 06 56 PM 2 morticia View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Oct 2010 Location Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Posts 8 358 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Fascinating article explains a lot The floggings will continue until morale improves Reply With Quote 20 07 2015 09 04 PM 3 DCon View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Mar 2010 Location heart of Europe Posts 19 750 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Bio on him here http m spiegel de international germany a 856565 html Wolfgang Schäuble Germany s finance minister who turned 70 on Tuesday had the two greatest goals of his political life within his grasp but they were both denied him He didn t become chancellor or president Does that still plague him today It was his quandary that his political fate was so closely intertwined with Helmut Kohl his erstwhile mentor Kohl had no intention of smoothing Schäuble s path to the chancellorship And when Kohl fell he tore Schäuble down with him They re both to blame they were chained together in the good times and the bad The donations scandal that rocked their party the Christian Democratic Union CDU marked a turning point in Schäuble s political biography In December 1999 he initially denied in parliament that he had received money from the businessman Karlheinz Schreiber but then conceded receiving 100 000 deutsche marks for the CDU He later publicly apologized for having concealed his relationship with Schreiber In his current job as finance minister he draws a certain satisfaction from his role as Europe s treasurer without his blessing not much can happen in the continent s financial affairs But there are contradictions here He has given many interviews stressing the European philosophy that monetary stability must have total priority At the same time though he has signalled that he supports European Central Bank Mario Draghi rather than the Bundesbank chief Jens Weidmann a staunch opponent of the bond buys Against Schäuble s will there would have been no state financing through unlimited ECB bond buying in the crisis hit nations of Southern Europe No one not even Merkel knows what Wolfgang Schäuble really thinks and feels Despite that or perhaps because it he continues to fascinate people Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other Oscar Ameringer Reply With Quote 20 07 2015 09 11 PM 4 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going I am almost thinking it s a shame that fella couldn t shoot straight isn t it The theory is the more emasculated a man becomes the more he needs to grab power to emasculate all other men Hitler after all was likely incapable of sexual intercourse according to his cleaning staff among his many other failings It s very likely that event made him truly rabid in his corrupt and power grabbing imperialist ambitions Reply With Quote 20 07 2015 09 21 PM 5 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going http www davidmcwilliams ie 2015 0 kill the euro I think I ll set up a savings account in Czech crowns during my year in Prague Will soon be worth more Great filleting of the latest patch up from Macca Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 02 54 PM 6 Shaadi View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 3 129 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Schauble and his ilk will always be with us They are the inheritors of the Whig tradition let the market take care of the poor they can work for the going rate move or die off problem solved Kick the poor politics and Arbeit Macht Frei Social Economics used to be something you could stop at National level The accelerated concentration of power away from Democratic decision making Parliaments to supranational bodies like the EU ECB WTO and all the other real decision makers has effectively put control of our lives in the hands of a technocratic class which isn t even controllable by Capitalism itself We live in a World of Corporatism and Corporatism is essentially Fascism Thanks to the cowed selfish and venal electorates of the EU we have walked into a prison and handed ourselves over to a new class of overlords with a practically unbreakable hold over Societies through their literally unchallengable technocratic governance mechanisms And it s set to get much worse As I posited here a long time ago a Continent of 500 million people from societies with a ruthlessly cruel militaristic and colonial tradition being molded into a single Imperial entity sure what could go wrong At least the US population hold their own Liberty in some regard We ve a Continent of easily manipulated morons who ll give Full Authoritarian power to the technocrats and be grateful for the protections offered sigh The sad part is that my hyperbole is 100 on the money Last edited by Shaadi 21 07 2015 at 02 58 PM Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 04 51 PM 7 Slim Buddha View Profile View Forum Posts Banned Join Date Mar 2010 Location Dublin North West the leading constituency Posts 5 881 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going You wouldn t want to be a sensitive German here would you Hitler Arbeit Macht Frei usw Oh dear Funny though Nashi brownshirts seem to be tickety boo Strange old world Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 05 22 PM 8 Shaadi View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Oct 2011 Posts 3 129 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Slim Buddha You wouldn t want to be a sensitive German here would you Hitler Arbeit Macht Frei usw Oh dear Funny though Nashi brownshirts seem to be tickety boo Strange old world Putin is small fry with a piddling population Russian quasi superpower fuckwittery is a matter for them and their often equally horrible neighbours Back in the rest of the World the march of Corporatism continues relentlessly and it s pretty damn soul destroying Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 06 31 PM 9 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by morticia Fascinating article explains a lot Very useful as it gives some historic perspective to what is happening now in the Eurozone There is a bit of a difficulty ahead for Schauble et al as said they will struggle to do what they want without a new Treaty and that would open that old can of worms democracy even if only a little I d say they can hardly believe how much they have got away with but there is a limit and no one can predict when a much bigger situation than Greece will erupt I would like to know more about Germany s role in the break up with Yugoslavia The US role is not mentioned but was more weighty than Germany s in the dismantling of socialism in the East We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 07 36 PM 10 riposte View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Dec 2011 Location Kilmainham Posts 4 640 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Schauble and Dr Strangelove have more in common than a wheelchair Attached Thumbnails Last edited by riposte 21 07 2015 at 07 44 PM Politics is the art of looking for trouble finding it everywhere misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 08 17 PM 11 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Shaadi Schauble and his ilk will always be with us They are the inheritors of the Whig tradition let the market take care of the poor they can work for the going rate move or die off problem solved Kick the poor politics and Arbeit Macht Frei Social Economics used to be something you could stop at National level The accelerated concentration of power away from Democratic decision making Parliaments to supranational bodies like the EU ECB WTO and all the other real decision makers has effectively put control of our lives in the hands of a technocratic class which isn t even controllable by Capitalism itself We live in a World of Corporatism and Corporatism is essentially Fascism Thanks to the cowed selfish and venal electorates of the EU we have walked into a prison and handed ourselves over to a new class of overlords with a practically unbreakable hold over Societies through their literally unchallengable technocratic governance mechanisms And it s set to get much worse As I posited here a long time ago a Continent of 500 million people from societies with a ruthlessly cruel militaristic and colonial tradition being molded into a single Imperial entity sure what could go wrong At least the US population hold their own Liberty in some regard We ve a Continent of easily manipulated morons who ll give Full Authoritarian power to the technocrats and be grateful for the protections offered sigh The sad part is that my hyperbole is 100 on the money The non eurozone countries are the smart ones They didn t buy the bull lock stock and barrel like we did Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 08 18 PM 12 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Slim Buddha You wouldn t want to be a sensitive German here would you Hitler Arbeit Macht Frei usw Oh dear Funny though Nashi brownshirts seem to be tickety boo Strange old world I used to think Merkel was the problem She s just a front for this maniac s imperial powergrabbing ambitions He hasn t murdered anyone but the end result is the same in some respects Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 08 21 PM 13 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Ironically today s German Nationalists in the CDU are not entirely like Bismarck was He saw European Unity as a fantasy that couldn t be enforced A Geographical unit that some people look to conquer Reply With Quote 21 07 2015 11 02 PM 14 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Shaadi Schauble and his ilk will always be with us They are the inheritors of the Whig tradition let the market take care of the poor they can work for the going rate move or die off problem solved Kick the poor politics and Arbeit Macht Frei Social Economics used to be something you could stop at National level The accelerated concentration of power away from Democratic decision making Parliaments to supranational bodies like the EU ECB WTO and all the other real decision makers has effectively put control of our lives in the hands of a technocratic class which isn t even controllable by Capitalism itself We live in a World of Corporatism and Corporatism is essentially Fascism Thanks to the cowed selfish and venal electorates of the EU we have walked into a prison and handed ourselves over to a new class of overlords with a practically unbreakable hold over Societies through their literally unchallengable technocratic governance mechanisms And it s set to get much worse As I posited here a long time ago a Continent of 500 million people from societies with a ruthlessly cruel militaristic and

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?16780-Sch%C3%A4uble-s-Europe-Where-did-it-come-from-Where-is-it-going (2016-02-09)
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  • Schäuble's Europe - Where did it come from? Where is it going? - Page 2
    their fathers conquered Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 02 21 PM 19 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by random new yorker only today I promise cos i avoid discussing politics when i am on vacation it does feel completely different to discuss EU politics from the same side of the Atlantic as you guys that was me coming to terms w the fact we will never see a Federal Europe in which each country s voice and needs will be respected independently of size population numbers for that you need to see the positive in the differences we have as societies and use those differences to benefit all We in Pt have been discussing what the happened to Tsipras Plan B did they REALLY not have a plan B for Exit or they had one that failed I read something about a Plan B in Zeroedge but I prefer not to comment on it as it needs to be confirmed other than saying that if they did have a plan B that failed then they had nothing left to print their own currency and we are all hostages of the EU Germany banking system In the words of Thomas Jefferson I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency first by inflation then by deflation the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered Of course there was a plan B Yanis even said it was his own plan to seize the Central Bank and 22 Billion in assets therein and issue a temporary currency Yanis had the support of only one Cabinet Colleague probably the now departed Energy Minister Lafanzis who seems to be a new political ally of his in Left Platform Yanis and Lafanzis were sacked over this I d say Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 03 14 PM 20 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Apjp Of course there was a plan B Yanis even said it was his own plan to seize the Central Bank and 22 Billion in assets therein and issue a temporary currency Yanis had the support of only one Cabinet Colleague probably the now departed Energy Minister Lafanzis who seems to be a new political ally of his in Left Platform Yanis and Lafanzis were sacked over this I d say Are you serious do you want to expand on this a little with links if you have them handy I have not been following this w my usual passion for politics cos i like to walk away from my daily routine and unplug although this time it was virtually impossible i did snap out of my slumber w the news on the Schaeuble Treuhand last weekend Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 03 33 PM 21 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by random new yorker Are you serious do you want to expand on this a little with links if you have them handy I have not been following this w my usual passion for politics cos i like to walk away from my daily routine and unplug although this time it was virtually impossible i did snap out of my slumber w the news on the Schaeuble Treuhand last weekend I know America is far away but come on It was in an interview he gave recently to The New Statesman A quick google will sort you Sorry I am in the middle of phonecalls from Czech companies Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 06 14 PM 22 riposte View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Dec 2011 Location Kilmainham Posts 4 640 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going and I m talking to Pluto Politics is the art of looking for trouble finding it everywhere misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 08 27 PM 23 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by riposte and I m talking to Pluto Timely http www bbc co uk news science environment 33622408 We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 08 30 PM 24 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by random new yorker only today I promise cos i avoid discussing politics when i am on vacation it does feel completely different to discuss EU politics from the same side of the Atlantic as you guys that was me coming to terms w the fact we will never see a Federal Europe in which each country s voice and needs will be respected independently of size population numbers for that you need to see the positive in the differences we have as societies and use those differences to benefit all We in Pt have been discussing what the happened to Tsipras Plan B did they REALLY not have a plan B for Exit or they had one that failed I read something about a Plan B in Zeroedge but I prefer not to comment on it as it needs to be confirmed other than saying that if they did have a plan B that failed then they had nothing left to print their own currency and we are all hostages of the EU Germany banking system In the words of Thomas Jefferson I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency first by inflation then by deflation the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered SYRIZA had no Plan B The entire strategy appears to have been based on a notion that worry about a Grexit would force an EU compromise This was at the same time as SYRIZA made it very clear they would not lead Greece out of the Eurozone Varoufakis said at the time of the Referendum that he proposed printing IOUs after the ECB had closed the banks as a further stage of brinkmanship He also talked about nationalisation of the banks The Telegraph reported that this statement by Varoufakis was the reason for his resignation as Minister In fairness to SYRIZA while their strategy was hopeless leaving the Eurozone and setting up a new currency and defaulting is much easier said than done http www telegraph co uk finance e exclusive html The ECB had talked about possible issuance of IOUs by Greece back in May perhaps as part of their general incitement of a bank run http www cityam com 215367 varoufa ld resort ious Last edited by C Flower 22 07 2015 at 08 41 PM We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 08 47 PM 25 irishpancake View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Member Join Date Mar 2010 Posts 16 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by C Flower SYRIZA had no Plan B The entire strategy appears to have been based on a notion that worry about a Grexit would force an EU compromise This was at the same time as SYRIZA made it very clear they would not lead Greece out of the Eurozone Varoufakis said at the time of the Referendum that he proposed printing IOUs after the ECB had closed the banks as a further stage of brinkmanship He also talked about nationalisation of the banks The Telegraph reported that this statement by Varoufakis was the reason for his resignation as Minister In fairness to SYRIZA while their strategy was hopeless leaving the Eurozone and setting up a new currency and defaulting is much easier said than done http www telegraph co uk finance e exclusive html The ECB had talked about possible issuance of IOUs by Greece back in May perhaps as part of their general incitement of a bank run http www cityam com 215367 varoufa ld resort ious Here http www newstatesman com world af le save greece The referendum of 5 July has also been rapidly forgotten It was preemptively dismissed by the Eurozone and many people saw it as a farce a sideshow that offered a false choice and created false hope and was only going to ruin Tsipras when he later signed the deal he was campaigning against As Schäuble supposedly said elections cannot be allowed to change anything But Varoufakis believes that it could have changed everything On the night of the referendum he had a plan Tsipras just never quite agreed to it The Eurozone can dictate terms to Greece because it is no longer fearful of a Grexit It is convinced that its banks are now protected if Greek banks default But Varoufakis thought that he still had some leverage once the ECB forced Greece s banks to close he could act unilaterally He said he spent the past month warning the Greek cabinet that the ECB would close Greece s banks to force a deal When they did he was prepared to do three things issue euro denominated IOUs apply a haircut to the bonds Greek issued to the ECB in 2012 reducing Greece s debt and seize control of the Bank of Greece from the ECB None of the moves would constitute a Grexit but they would have threatened it Varoufakis was confident that Greece could not be expelled by the Eurogroup there is no legal provision for such a move But only by making Grexit possible could Greece win a better deal And Varoufakis thought the referendum offered Syriza the mandate they needed to strike with such bold moves or at least to announce them He hinted at this plan on the eve of the referendum and reports later suggested this was what cost him his job He offered a clearer explanation As the crowds were celebrating on Sunday night in Syntagma Square Syriza s six strong inner cabinet held a critical vote By four votes to two Varoufakis failed to win support for his plan and couldn t convince Tsipras He had wanted to enact his triptych of measures earlier in the week when the ECB first forced Greek banks to shut Sunday night was his final attempt When he lost his departure was inevitable Transcript http www newstatesman com world af le save greece Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 10 19 PM 26 riposte View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Dec 2011 Location Kilmainham Posts 4 640 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by C Flower Timely http www bbc co uk news science environment 33622408 No CF this is the context Originally Posted by Apjp You re out there somewhere near Pluto Originally Posted by riposte and I m talking to Pluto Politics is the art of looking for trouble finding it everywhere misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 10 27 PM 27 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by C Flower SYRIZA had no Plan B The entire strategy appears to have been based on a notion that worry about a Grexit would force an EU compromise This was at the same time as SYRIZA made it very clear they would not lead Greece out of the Eurozone Varoufakis said at the time of the Referendum that he proposed printing IOUs after the ECB had closed the banks as a further stage of brinkmanship He also talked about nationalisation of the banks I read the entire interview in the New Statesman and NOT a word of nationalization of any banks He uses the words take control of the Bank of Greece as part of a three prongued approach to dealing w ECB shutting down Greece s banks The Telegraph reported that this statement by Varoufakis was the reason for his resignation as Minister Ah the Torygraph Yanis says was very friendly to him for different reasons I think the reason Syriza Tsipras failed is well explained in that interview Reply With Quote 22 07 2015 10 32 PM 28 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going why Tsipras failed from YV interview in the New Statesman Yanis Varoufakis words below Sure sure I never believed we should go straight to a new currency My view was and I put this to the government that if they dared shut our banks down which I considered to be an aggressive move of incredible potency we should respond aggressively but without crossing the point of no return We should issue our own IOUs or even at least announce that we re going to issue our own euro denominated liquidity we should haircut the Greek 2012 bonds that the ECB held or announce we were going to do it and we should take control of the Bank of Greece This was the triptych the three things which I thought we should respond with if the ECB shut down our banks I was warning the Cabinet this was going to happen the ECB shut our banks for a month in order to drag us into a humiliating agreement When it happened and many of my colleagues couldn t believe it happened my recommendation for responding energetically let s say was voted down Well let me say that out of six people we were in a minority of two Once it didn t happen I got my orders to close down the banks consensually with the ECB and the Bank of Greece which I was against but I did because I m a team player I believe in collective responsibility And then the referendum happened and the referendum gave us an amazing boost one that would have justified this type of energetic response his plan against the ECB but then that very night the government decided that the will of the people this resounding No should not be what energised the energetic approach his plan Instead it should lead to major concessions to the other side the meeting of the council of political leaders with our Prime Minister accepting the premise that whatever happens whatever the other side does we will never respond in any way that challenges them And essentially that means folding You cease to negotiate that is why YV resigned he is a negotiator was brought on board to negotiate if there is nothing to negotiate his only option was to resign rny Last edited by random new yorker 22 07 2015 at 10 54 PM Reply With Quote 23 07 2015 12 08 AM 29 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Yep he did his best whatever people think of his earlier naivety Reply With Quote 23 07 2015 05 30 PM 30 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by irishpancake Here http www newstatesman com world af le save greece Transcript http www newstatesman com world af le save greece Thanks But it is a confused picture It was very evident that Schauble and co were prepared to crash the Greek banks and swallow up default rather than concede anything to SYRIZA Greece In that event SYRIZA would have been de facto out of the Eurozone and would have had to print its own currency The EU and markets had priced Grexit in were prepared for it and 76 of Greek debt held by the Greek government which would have still been held accountable for this debt in euros So how did Varoufakis think that IOUs were any kind of threat to the EU We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote Page 2 of 6 First 1 2 3 4 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation European Economy Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?16780-Sch%C3%A4uble-s-Europe-Where-did-it-come-from-Where-is-it-going/page2 (2016-02-09)
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  • Schäuble's Europe - Where did it come from? Where is it going? - Page 3
    is it going At least he didn t stab the people in the back and he tried to do the right thing in the end however belatedly That s laudable in and of itself I hope Lafanzis The Parliament speaker whose beautifully poetic and very long surname escapes me the Syriza rebels and Yanis resurrect the Greek left within a few years It s clear this is a learning curve now but will there be a new unified and more radical approach or a sectarianism similar to KKE s approach Antarsya aren t very vocal or maybe are just not there in any large numbers Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 06 23 AM 34 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by C Flower I m not sure what New Statesmen interview you are referring to but Varoufakis gave a number of interviews in July in which he has asserted he was arguing in favour of radical measures So were others in Syriza if Zerohedge is right who were prepared to go further and to seize the banks replace their leadership and print Euros how do you equate that with nationalization of banks http www zerohedge com news 2015 0 currency nati This is Ambrose s words not YanisV V provides an analogy w CA 2008 technical measures to resolve problems temporarily But when push came to shove they did nothing but conceded everthing true lack of what some people call killer instinct others call it vision ceasing the opportunity and making the right decision is not for any Joe The fact is that there were only two men out of six in the group that were confident enough to go all in they failed to leverage a Colossal helping hand from their people their Oxi cos Tsipras may have thought they the Eurogroup will listen to The People but the Eurogroup was not drafted w democracy in mind it is an instrument to get a job done for about 24hr Greece had the upper hand and they squandered the opportunity to cease it They had not prepared and mobilised people for the extreme seriousness of the confrontation with the EU institutions true I think Tsipras was naive enough to play the game and not prep for the consequences of pushing it all the way when the Chinese shut the door in his face he went to Putin that played him like a fiddle then Obama told him that his problems should be resolved at the EU level he had bigger fish to fry w the Iran deal and the next chinese bubble so Tsipras should have considered ALL his options carefully Looks like Goliath did a lot better this time around if he never really considered exiting the Euro he should have not played so hard all he accrued was more debt as the game unraveled Pilger put his finger on it http www fairobserver com region e s a lie 31049 more class warfare BS Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 06 35 AM 35 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by C Flower Varoufakis in his blog said that he resigned because he did not think Syriza should be implementing a hopeless programme http yanisvaroufakis eu 2015 07 21 international His first mention on resigning was before the Referendum took place At some point he realized Tsipras intentions may have been good but bit amateurish i would have done the same glad to see that at the very least he accomplished one mission to rock the boat and show us all the cracks and lumps and cancer ravaging the Undemocratic EU Institutions the turning point for me was to witness how the institutions soft power was used to overturn a democratically elected gov glad V listened to his instinct and did not become a politician Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 06 47 AM 36 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Apjp At least he didn t stab the people in the back and he tried to do the right thing in the end however belatedly That s laudable in and of itself I hope Lafanzis The Parliament speaker whose beautifully poetic and very long surname escapes me the Syriza rebels and Yanis resurrect the Greek left within a few years It s clear this is a learning curve now but will there be a new unified and more radical approach or a sectarianism similar to KKE s approach Antarsya aren t very vocal or maybe are just not there in any large numbers it will be interesting to follow what happens to Syriza despite their extremist beginnings they got a center left mandate and governed by it more or less some mistakes were made but they should try to salvage what they achieved in the negotiations after all they got the Debt relief they were asking for after Obama woke up from his slumber and told the IMF to fold it w their debt sustainability statement It may not be a bad idea to let Tsipras take responsibility for the perceived failure at the end and resign and let another one take it from here but keep building on whatever positive they ve achieved use the leverage they have to implement a certain number of reforms we all know they need etc if it was me I would be busy getting things done in the aftermath that is NOW Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 09 39 AM 37 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by random new yorker more class warfare BS The entire Greek battle was exactly that The fact that Varoufakis and Tsipras were in denial about that led them to follow a hopeless path of negotiations There was no way a left government was going to get any concessions from the EU IMF The entire reform and restructure project is class warfare transfer of wealth from the many to the few We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 09 44 AM 38 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by random new yorker it will be interesting to follow what happens to Syriza despite their extremist beginnings they got a center left mandate and governed by it more or less some mistakes were made but they should try to salvage what they achieved in the negotiations after all they got the Debt relief they were asking for after Obama woke up from his slumber and told the IMF to fold it w their debt sustainability statement It may not be a bad idea to let Tsipras take responsibility for the perceived failure at the end and resign and let another one take it from here but keep building on whatever positive they ve achieved use the leverage they have to implement a certain number of reforms we all know they need etc if it was me I would be busy getting things done in the aftermath that is NOW What debt relief has SYRIZA got for Greece We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 12 23 PM 39 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going There hasn t been ANY debt relief Some mild ebt extension was on the table but even that s been withdrawn so all of this has been a pointless cave in when Yanis s plan and immediate elections would have been a better option Reply With Quote 24 07 2015 12 52 PM 40 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Apjp There hasn t been ANY debt relief Some mild ebt extension was on the table but even that s been withdrawn so all of this has been a pointless cave in when Yanis s plan and immediate elections would have been a better option Exactly No debt relief And the IMF s recommendations did not involve any IMF write down of debt And an abrupt badly timed and unprepared pull out from the Euro might have done huge damage and certainly did not have public support IOUs had been suggested by the ECB months previously It is no use us just blaming SYRIZA for Greece s situation It has come about out of the present economic and political system In any case many of the wealthier Greeks are still doing fine and even expect to benefit from reforms while the majority face a grim life There will not be mass public support for real change while people think what they have now is better and more secure than what they would get under the new system and they must also feel confident that they have organisations that can carry out that change successfully Last edited by C Flower 24 07 2015 at 01 07 PM We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 25 07 2015 12 14 AM 41 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Apjp There hasn t been ANY debt relief Some mild ebt extension was on the table but even that s been withdrawn so all of this has been a pointless cave in when Yanis s plan and immediate elections would have been a better option it is my understanding that Debt Sustainability demanded by the IMF over last weekend included will include massive debt relief in some form should be negotiated behind closed doors far from media frenzi now that Tsipras caved in Am i reading too much between the lines Possibly i ll re check the numbers when i am ready to face the world again in august Reply With Quote 30 07 2015 06 26 PM 42 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Here I found an article in MSM that states what I said above By Mike Bird for the Business Insider July 30th 2015 The most important part of the document from the FT According to a four page strictly confidential summary of Wednesday s board meeting obtained by the Financial Times IMF negotiators will participate in policy discussions to ensure the eurozone s new bailout is consistent with what the Fund has in mind But they cannot reach staff level agreement at this stage The Fund will only decide whether to participate during a stage two after Greece has agreed on a comprehensive set of reforms and crucially after eurozone bailout lenders have agreed on debt relief Read more http www businessinsider com imf n ixzz3hOdjLdM0 Reply With Quote 30 07 2015 07 29 PM 43 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Oh yeah like the debt relief we had in Ireland where we get to foot the bill for Europe s banks forever Horsecrap sorry and I mean that in all sincerity Reply With Quote 02 08 2015 08 01 PM 44 random new yorker View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jul 2011 Location USA Posts 3 669 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Originally Posted by Apjp Oh yeah like the debt relief we had in Ireland where we get to foot the bill for Europe s banks forever Horsecrap sorry and I mean that in all sincerity On the issue of Debt relief and Ireland and Greece I bumped into this piece today this is from Foreign Affairs in my opinion FA represents fairly well American Capitalism which is not to be confused with European Capitalism with its Colonialist undertones This is the take home msg of the article Right now the Greek experience has shown the world that the institutions of the European project are not yet up to the task of crisis management In extremis it seems leaders would rather openly discuss kicking a country out of the currency union than provide some sort of relief for its debts In that case the EU is not a currency union but a series of bilateral currency pegs And as such a Greek exit in the next five years could still come to pass But if you go thru the trouble to read it you ll see that in June of 2012 Enda Kenny started to push for debt relief and in early 2013 he got it in the form of Extremely Long Term Bonds So it would be nice if your politicians would Shut It as regards ongoing negotiations for Greece s debt relief Lending Athens a Pot of Gold by Stephen Kinsella JUly 28 2015 Reply With Quote 02 08 2015 09 33 PM 45 morticia View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Oct 2010 Location Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Posts 8 358 Re Schäuble s Europe Where did it come from Where is it going Our politicians got thrown the odd bone under the table by looking like they were toeing the line they have also been bailed out unofficially by the symbiotic relationship they have with US MNCs The debt overhang was caused by a property bubble collapse not by structural deficits during the boom time Despite superficial similarities of timing trigger being the global 2007 crisis there are few similarities between the Irish and Greek economies Yes they may well both be vulnerable but to different problems The floggings will continue until morale improves Reply With Quote Page 3 of 6 First 1 2 3 4 5 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation European Economy Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and 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  • Schäuble's Europe - Where did it come from? Where is it going? - Page 6
    CPSU UNITE The Trade Union Left Forum Mandate Economy and Employment Ireland the EFSF and the IMF World Economy European Economy The Irish Economy Exchequer Figures and Other Irish Economic Data The IFSC and German Banks in Ireland Privatisation PPPs and Outsourcing The Irish Oligarchy NAMA The National Asset Management Agency Anglo Irish Bank Scandal Irish Banks Crisis Not inc Anglo Irish Employment and Unemployment The Irish Bank Guarantee Mortgages and Personal Debt Irish Economic Overview and Analysis Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council

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  • Politics ~ Irish & International
    Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo County Council Local Elections 2014 Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Local Elections 2014 Mayo County Council Local Elections 2014 Southern Ireland European Parliament Elections 2014 Referendum 2013 Abolition of Senate New Court of Appeal Irish General Election 2011 General Discussion Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum The Childrens Referendum 31st Amendment Republic of Ireland Constituencies and General Election Campaign Donegal North East Constituency Forum Donegal South West Constituency Forum Dublin

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  • European Economy
    C Flower 24 05 2012 08 06 PM 2 Pages 1 2 Replies 16 Views 4 539 Rating0 5 Last Post By Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 10 10 2014 11 33 AM An anti neoliberal argument for EU Skepticism The rational benefits of being an EEA State Started by Apjp 02 06 2014 11 43 PM Replies 9 Views 1 421 Rating0 5 Last Post By fluffybiscuits View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 03 06 2014 10 52 PM Caption Time Started by Ephilant 24 02 2013 07 10 AM 2 Pages 1 2 Replies 18 Views 4 272 Rating0 5 Last Post By Mowl View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 27 05 2014 09 01 PM New law to close problem banks Started by fluffybiscuits 15 04 2014 10 41 PM Replies 0 Views 887 Rating0 5 Last Post By fluffybiscuits View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 15 04 2014 10 41 PM European Semesterisation Another Nail in the Coffin of Democracy and Sovereignty Started by C Flower 01 04 2014 03 34 PM Replies 0 Views 1 125 Rating0 5 Last Post By C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 01 04 2014 03 34 PM Obama in Brussels corporate power and the Trans Atlantic Trade Investment Partnership Started by Dr FIVE 26 03 2014 03 39 AM Replies 1 Views 1 043 Rating0 5 Last Post By rebellin View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage 26 03 2014 06 52 PM Europe in Decline A Continent on the Slide Started by C Flower 15 01 2014 04 31 PM Replies 12 Views 2 828 Rating0 5 Last Post By Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 20 02 2014 11 16 PM Italy NOT to big to fail too big to bail Update IMF in town Started by AnIrishman 31 12 2010 07 11 AM 17 Pages 1 2 3 17 Replies 246 Views 38 422 Rating0 5 Last Post By Richardbouvet View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 14 02 2014 04 22 PM Super Mario to the rescue so what s the plan Signore Draghi Started by PaddyJoe 06 09 2012 12 41 PM 3 Pages 1 2 3 Replies 35 Views 7 634 Rating0 5 Last Post By DCon View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 10 02 2014 10 39 PM German Court Questions ECB s Bond Buying Legality of OMT in Doubt Started by ang 07 02 2014 11 57 AM Replies 3 Views 1 275 Rating0 5 Last Post By C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 08 02 2014 03 11 PM Council of Europe Says Austerity Has Eroded Human Rights Started by C Flower 07 12 2013 10 18 AM Replies 7 Views 1 805 Rating0 5 Last Post By toxic avenger View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 03 02 2014 01 42 AM Bundesbank calls for Capital Levy to avert Government Bankruptcies Started by ang 27 01 2014 02 23 PM Replies 6 Views 1 704 Rating0 5 Last Post By rebellin View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage 29 01 2014 05 26 PM HSBC Imposes Restrictions on Large Cash Withdrawals Started by ang 26 01 2014 11 59 PM Replies 8 Views 2 158 Rating0 5 Last Post By fluffybiscuits View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message 29 01 2014 02 59 PM Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation European Economy Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas Weekly Schedules 31st Daíl Department of Transport and Communications Department of Finance The Department of the Taoiseach Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine Department of Public Services and Reform Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources Department of Health Department of Education Department of Environment Housing Planning Department of Justice and Defence An Garda Siochána Department of Social Protection The Good Friday Agreement Irish Politics Politics of the North Information and Data Resources 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  • Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance - Right2Change
    write down of residential mortgages for taxation of wealth and big business profits and against privatisation of public services and natural resources Instead of putting money into bank debt we think there should be public investment in housing healthcare education childcare public transport water services renewable energy and environmental protection as the start of re orienting economic activity to meet social need and provide useful work for young people and the unemployed A new political initiative should stand for the separation of church and state and commit to extending democratic rights to all oppressed groups women the young and the old LGBT people Travellers migrants asylum seekers and people with disabilities As a first step it should commit to campaigning for a Yes vote in the upcoming marriage equality referendum and to campaign for repeal of the 8th Amendment and lift the ban on abortion in Ireland We also think a political initiative should champion the right of workers to defend their jobs and living standards It should support solidarity action with the likes of the Dunnes workers and action to scrap the anti union laws Opposition to austerity should not stop at the border we think austerity must be fought both in the North and the South The implementation of Westminster cuts by Stormont is no more acceptable than the implementation of Troika cuts by the government in the South Reject coalition with Fianna Fail Fine Gael or Labour This kind of real change requires a political alternative that will break the rules that impoverish working class people We cannot do that if we accept the approach of Fianna Fail Fine Gael and Labour the proponents of austerity inequality and oppression So a new political initiative must publicly commit to reject any coalition or deals with Fianna Fail Fine Gael or Labour It should fight for a Left government committed to breaking the rules that impose austerity and that prioritise the restoration of the profits of banking and big business for a government committed to restructuring the economy and society to meet the needs of people and to protect our environment including unilateral repudiation if necessary of bankers debt The opportunity to build a substantial political challenge to the rule of the 1 in this country is massive The initiative by the Right2Water unions can be an important step in building that if it is done on the basis of a bottom up participative and democratic approach If it is based on struggle non payment of the water charges and a principled anti austerity stance we can have a major impact In summary we think a new political initiative should be open participative and democratic in its organisation and functioning reject coalition with Fianna Fail Fine Gael or Labour openly call for non payment of the water charge have a principled anti austerity approach that repudiates the bankers debt and supports public investment to meet the needs of ordinary people environmental protection and provide proper jobs campaign against oppression and for democratic rights including marriage equality and repeal of the 8th Amendment oppose racism and the scapegoating of minorities Signed Richard Boyd Barrett TD Cllr Brid Smyth Cllr John Lyons Ailbhe Smyth and Brian O Boyle on behalf of the People Before Profit Alliance Paul Murphy TD Ruth Coppinger TD Joe Higgins TD Eileen Gabbett and Joe Harrington on behalf of the Anti Austerity Alliance Cllr Brendan Young Eddie Conlon Des Derwin Shane Fitzgerald Tomas O Dulaing Raymond Deane My blog Revolutionary Programme Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 12 58 AM 5 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance This would be good I hope the Right 2 Water coalition stands someone in Louth In addition to 2 probable SF seats there is another leftwing independent seat there at least for the taking which will go to the Greens if no credible candidate stands Laughable trying to defend the disunity of PBP AAA They might win maybe 6 7 seats each in urban areas in Dublin and Cork but someone else needs to carry the leftwing can in provincial towns and try and get a spate of candidates elected there so that we can really hold SF s feet to the fire in the event of a mass left opposition or potential minority govt Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 04 PM 6 New Vision View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jun 2011 Location Donegal Posts 1 442 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Building a left alternative Establishing Shared Agendas Developing Alliances and Building Coalitions Professor Eduardo Silva Tulane University New Orleans and Mary Murphy Claiming Our Future Maynooth University The Ark Eustace Street Temple Bar Dublin 2 Monday 11th May from 6 30pm to 8 30pm Only when the last tree has died the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we cannot eat money We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors we borrow it from our children Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 04 PM 7 New Vision View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jun 2011 Location Donegal Posts 1 442 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Everything you wanted to know about the government s priorities Giving Back To The Few Only when the last tree has died the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we cannot eat money We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors we borrow it from our children Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 23 PM 8 Launchbury View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Oct 2014 Location High Wycombe Posts 211 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance I know someone who was at it I ll see what I can find out The time has passed for splits and nit picking at who is in charge of what This mightn t be ideal but it s a start and who s to say if people don t like it it can be changed A sentiment I agree with in this article actually Although there are good reasons for optimism arising out of the protests that centre on water metering and billing at the moment particularly the politicisation of so many who had been silent the problem is getting past the widespread and mistaken belief on the part of most citizens that our only demonstrable power resides in our interaction with the ballot box every four or five years Because of that pressure must be maintained on those parties that are not FF FG and Labour and on independents whether lone voices or representing groups to atempt to overturn permanent misgovernment by any combination of those three parties and replacing that bad option with the option of a progressive alternative combination Let us admit from the off that the progressive alternative that we can construct in the short term will not be perfect but let us understand that we are capable of refining that initial model We does not indicate a top down leadership but a bottom up movement of politicised and increasingly better informed autonomous citizens The most important result of the presentation to the people of an alternative is not necessarily electoral success this time but rather the process of breaking old bad habits of opting for the safe haven of the divil you know We have had 93 years to learn the hard lessons of that repeated foolishness and we didn t But the next time out at the polling stations in the General Election offers the opportunity to allow enough people to imagine many for the first time that there may be another better option And if it worked and it s a long shot and there was a government including SF SP SWP other leftist parties and independents but which didn t ultimately measure up to our expectations then we are not married to them either a politically better informed and more adventurous electorate would be better positioned to move the pieces around the chessboard and less likely to accept failure There are real signs of a hunger for change and a willingness to leap into the unknown on the part of 40 50 of likely voters There are real signs of a growing active citizenry determined to have their say to speak directly to existing power structures and to make their demands for a place at the negotiating table Writing Sinn Féin out of that alternative equation failing to pressure that party into moving further left is to effectively run up the white flag and to consign the citizens to another five years of counter revolutionary tyranny There is currently no alternative that works without the numbers that Sinn Féin will provide which may well be closer to 30 than 20 by election time There are valid criticisms that can be made of that party just as there are valid criticisms that can be made of the SP SWP and other left groupings Those criticisms should not trigger ostracisation but should trigger honest dialogue aimed at genuinely serving the citizens by creating a viable alternative There are those who will have to hold their nose so as to get over the potential mix of an alternative some part of which they don t like or don t fully trust or about which they have misgivings We all have to do that to a greater or lesser extent The important thing is that we hold our nerve dispel the idea that there can be a pure revolution and try to achieve an electoral payoff that lays the foundation for future transformational change if we don t succeed this time or even if we do Light a fire in the imagination of citizens and fan the flames And then don t be surprised if they start exercising some real control Welcome it Meanwhile and in parallel all on the left should engage with the process of creating a new constitution for the sort of society I call it the Irish Republic but that s my bias that we think would work far better for all citizens and for those who live among us than the existing failed entity Venezuelans and others have been able to do that but for some strange reason we either believe it to be unimportant or that we are incapable of pulling it together Without doing that work all we have to offer the people as we seek their support are broad principles often fuzzy rather than a clear outline of what the state that the citizens must own has to offer politically socially and economically under that new constitutional regime over which the citizens must exercise ultimate authority Leaving the gate open for more of the same dreadful failure that we have consistently endured since 1922 is simply not an option for any genuine socialist or republican whose concern must be implementing immediate change to significantly alleviate the severe plight of many of our people and whose goal must be the creation of a far better country in which to live and not just exist https theirishrepublic wordpress c for dialogue While we argue about top down or bottom up or aim barbs about splits and all the rest the establishment will hoover up votes and power yet again Personally I ve had enough of it time the left got it s act together and achieved something Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 31 PM 9 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by New Vision Building a left alternative Establishing Shared Agendas Developing Alliances and Building Coalitions Professor Eduardo Silva Tulane University New Orleans and Mary Murphy Claiming Our Future Maynooth University The Ark Eustace Street Temple Bar Dublin 2 Monday 11th May from 6 30pm to 8 30pm What is Claiming Our Future s position on water charges and privatisation We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 35 PM 10 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by Launchbury I know someone who was at it I ll see what I can find out The time has passed for splits and nit picking at who is in charge of what This mightn t be ideal but it s a start and who s to say if people don t like it it can be changed A sentiment I agree with in this article actually https theirishrepublic wordpress c for dialogue While we argue about top down or bottom up or aim barbs about splits and all the rest the establishment will hoover up votes and power yet again Personally I ve had enough of it time the left got it s act together and achieved something The approach being taken is apparently to look for common ground It is up to each group whether they can find enough of that and no fundamental in principle difference to enable them to work together As the group is Union based it would be surprising if it restricted itself to electoral campaigns Unions work all the year around not just once every 5 years We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 10 38 PM 11 Launchbury View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Oct 2014 Location High Wycombe Posts 211 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by C Flower The approach being taken is apparently to look for common ground It is up to each group whether they can find enough of that and no fundamental in principle difference to enable them to work together As the group is Union based it would be surprising if it restricted itself to electoral campaigns Unions work all the year around not just once every 5 years Yep it really should be a constant thing not just on one topic but things like living wage zero hours homelessness and all that There s scope for it if you ask me people are becoming more and more aware of whats going on Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 11 15 PM 12 Jolly Red Giant View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Posts 1 393 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by C Flower The approach being taken is apparently to look for common ground It is up to each group whether they can find enough of that and no fundamental in principle difference to enable them to work together As the group is Union based it would be surprising if it restricted itself to electoral campaigns Unions work all the year around not just once every 5 years This alternative can only progress if it is based on open debate democratic organisation and mutual respect From what I am hearing the conference lacked all three Reply With Quote 05 05 2015 11 29 PM 13 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant This alternative can only progress if it is based on open debate democratic organisation and mutual respect From what I am hearing the conference lacked all three I m sure all kinds of people want to co opt the power of the anti water charges campaign for all kinds of reasons good and bad There is no doubt though that the movement is a big political development It was a preliminary meeting I think it would be very difficult to run anything effective without democratic structures People will only put up with that for so long and then they quit Surely the best thing to do is to get stuck in and try to make it work as far as possible We cannot withdraw our cards from the game Were we as silent and mute as stones our very passivity would be an act Jean Paul Sartre Reply With Quote 06 05 2015 12 30 AM 14 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Re Right2Water Unions Work for a Left Electoral Alliance Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant This alternative can only progress if it is based on open debate democratic organisation and mutual respect From what I am hearing the conference lacked all three Oh get off the stage You fellas are just immune to co operation on anything Like any of you could be bothered running outside the main cities in the Republic anyways Maybe if you were bothered in the GE outside a few cities you would have a point but you re not so don t be knocking Trade Unionists and progressive forces for doing so Let an equally genuine leftwing coalition do the business in the Provincial towns and quit whinging Stick to your own infighting it s what you both do best Reply With Quote 06 05 2015 02 00 AM 15 New Vision View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?16659-Right2Water-Unions-Work-for-a-Left-Electoral-Alliance-Right2Change (2016-02-09)
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