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  • Post War Libya - Where is it Going ?
    Join Date Feb 2011 Location Laois Posts 195 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Its going exactly where the rebels Yanks Brits french knew tearing itself apart http www theaustralian com au news 1226206469194 THE treatment was inhuman said Doctor Osama Mussa as the prison guards around him looked uneasy They burnt people with cigarettes beat their feet hung men by their arms look here he said showing dark swollen rings and scars around his and other prisoners wrists and arms They put people in single cells This man had his toenails pulled out the jailed doctor said Doctor Mussa s testimony makes uncomfortable listening as it describes the treatment meted out not by Muammar Gaddafi loyalists but by Libya s new Western backed revolutionaries It comes as the UN Secretary General Ban Ki moon prepares to release a report on Monday that says 7000 pro Gaddafi prisoners are languishing in Libya often in makeshift private jails without legal process The UN has also expressed alarm at reports of abuse and torture Dr Mussa made his claims yesterday hijacking a tour organised to show how well prisoners in Khoms 90km east of Tripoli were being treated Instead the 34 year old prominent local Gaddafi loyalist and other prisoners insisted they had suffered systematic abuse The UN report says that many of those detained are black Africans held because of their skin colour following claims that Gaddafi used mercenaries recruited from sub Saharan Africa The report suggests that many of those in custody are simply economic migrants who held low paid jobs in Libya and were caught up in the war Some detainees have reportedly been subjected to torture and ill treatment the report said It also cites disturbing reports of war crimes committed by revolutionary forces as well as by fighters loyal to Gaddafi At Khoms prison the conditions for prisoners appear to have dramatically improved a month ago after a new committee of the revolutionary National Transitional Council was sent from Tripoli to take control The prisoners said they now enjoyed good food and decent treatment from guards Abdul Salaam one of the new prison officers admitted We are all volunteers and we came 25 days ago We heard that the prisoners were being badly treated before Not all of them but the ones well known as killers We only beat one prisoner on his feet That was because he said a very bad thing against God and we are Muslims The standing of Libya s new National Transitional Council was badly damaged by last month s capture and extrajudicial killing of Gaddafi and his son Muatassim beamed around the world in grainy mobile phone camera footage Human Rights Watch reported that a number of other wounded prisoners were also killed during that episode On Wednesday the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court supported Libya s right to try Saif al Islam Gaddafi in spite of international concerns over whether he would have a fair trial The dictator s second son was captured on Saturday in the south of the country Prisons are holding large numbers of men women and children from the town of Tawarga which has a black skinned population They are accused of having participated in an organised campaign of rape and violence against the neighbouring city of Misratah during the war Tawargans say that they were subject to racial prejudice Libya s acting Justice Minister has submitted a draft law for transitional justice to the UN It sets out a framework for establishing the truth of human rights violations in the war Reply With Quote 25 11 2011 02 11 PM 14 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Things are looking up We only beat one prisoner on his feet That was because he said a very bad thing against God and we are Muslims Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 02 17 PM 15 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Tarhouni who we discussed a while ago is gone from government and making a liberal democractic critique of the new Transitional Government http www huffingtonpost com 2011 1 n 1112889 html Tarhouni a former professor of economics and finance at the University of Washington was one of the most visible and internationally respected faces of the Libyan revolutionary leadership that presided over the ouster of Moammar Gadhafi s regime But he said he refused an offer to join Prime Minister Abdurrahim el Keib s transitional Cabinet because he believes that those now in power are not representative He accused them of being supported from the outside by money arms and PR The voices that we see now are the voices of the elite he said He said the countries who backed the rebellion have interests in Libya some which we know and some which we don t know While he didn t elaborate Tarhouni did not object when a journalist suggested that he was speaking about Qatar The Gulf state was a leading Arab backer of the uprising that toppled Gadhafi s regime providing warplanes to the NATO led air campaign as well as direct help to the revolutionaries with arms and other equipment Tarhouni who spoke several hours after el Keib s new government was sworn in said he felt relieved at finally being able to speak his mind freely Earlier this week the chairman of Libya s National Transitional Council Mustafa Abdul Jalil also indicated that Qatar was meddling in Libyan affairs Tarhouni said that more than 90 percent of Libyans are not represented by this new leadership It is about time that we hear the true voices of the masses he said Tarhouni said he plans to spend the coming months giving lectures and speaking to

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  • Post War Libya - Where is it Going ? - Page 2
    him is in heat again Bertolt Brecht Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 10 44 PM 26 Trow View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Sep 2010 Location The Grove Posts 3 472 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by C Flower Not entirely but there was a massive amount of fiction constant announcement of captures and conquests days or even weeks before they took place Videos of Tripoli that were Benghazi There was a war Heavy and protracted bombing did take place And defections from the Government and army And a certain amount of fighting Massive amounts of fiction misinformation confusion defections and certain amounts of fighting paint a picture of war but not as we know it Quote David Cameron s decision to place Britain in the vanguard of efforts to topple the Gaddafi regime is dictated by the same considerations which led Tony Blair and Gordon Brown to embrace that same regime a desire to maintain BP s profitable access to Libyan oil Unquote Also Quote The decision to attack Libya and impose regime change for that is what the UN resolution means may have been authorised by the Security Council But it was instigated by the despots of the Arab League desperate to secure deeper western involvement in the region to save them from their own peoples And it will be implemented by the same powers which have wreaked such mayhem throughout the Arab and Muslim worlds over the last ten years and longer unquote http warisacrime org content stop tion war libya It s like a game of Chess Only the people on the ground are the expendable pawns in this sick game Last edited by Trow 27 11 2011 at 10 51 PM Reason link Happiness is an inside job Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 10 53 PM 27 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Sam Lord 40 years of being the dictator should have been enough for him If he had had the decency to step aside when the people demanded it instead of unleashing his army and thugs on them then no one would have been killed But of course dictators never have enough And Saif had to have his rightful inheritance But we can t blame him for anything That s not PC in certain circles He was an anti imperialist after all So its NATO that s anti Imperialist When the massed forces of the big powers hammer the hell out of a post colonial semi colonial state the personality of its ruler is hardly the main consideration Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 03 PM 28 Sam Lord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 16 006 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by C Flower When the massed forces of the big powers hammer the hell out of a post colonial semi colonial state the personality of its ruler is hardly the main consideration Only when his actions provide a pretext and a justification He should have just gone when the people demanded it All the subsequent deaths can be attributed to his refusal to do this and to unleashing his army on the Libyan people He thought he had a divine right to rule but learned his lesson in the end He met a fitting end imo Assad next Then the waves will be lapping at the shores of the KIngdom and the Gulf States Roll on the Arab Spring Do not rejoice in his defeat you men For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard the female dog that bore him is in heat again Bertolt Brecht Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 04 PM 29 Trow View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Sep 2010 Location The Grove Posts 3 472 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Sam Lord 40 years of being the dictator should have been enough for him If he had had the decency to step aside when the people demanded it instead of unleashing his army and thugs on them then no one would have been killed But of course dictators never have enough And Saif had to have his rightful inheritance But we can t blame him for anything That s not PC in certain circles He was an anti imperialist after all Rich to send foreign democracies like GB and the USA to put manners on any regime Bloody Sunday Project MK ULTRA the smart bombing of over 35 000 innocent civilians in the days leading up to ground troops in Iraq Happiness is an inside job Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 09 PM 30 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Sam Lord It plays a double game all the time Close ally of the US but also has very good relations with Iran Closely connected as well to the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah Promotes revolution and democracy abroad while being ruled as a family fiefdom It seems to be disliked by the pro western elements in the TNC in Libya because they believe it to be arming the Islamists I m not sure why the pro west are whinging so much because the Islamists appear to have been entirely sidelined for the moment Certainly in the current government In what way a double game A straight forward US proxy surely http www strategicstudiesinstitute Gulf 2011 6 27 The United States should continue to be limited and careful in the ways that it relates to these events Other nations including small but wealthy Qatar and

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  • Post War Libya - Where is it Going ? - Page 3
    amount to 150 billion now frozen globally 11 If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found 12 A portion of Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens 13 A mother who gave birth to a child receive US 5 000 14 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs 0 15 15 25 of Libyans have a university degree 16 Gaddafi carried out the world s largest irrigation project known as the Great Man Made River project to make water readily available throughout the desert country What improvements will Western intervention bring Happiness is an inside job Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 36 PM 37 Sam Lord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 16 006 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Trow Before we begin to assassinate individual characters surrounding the conflict in Libya and while asking were Libya is going lets look at what was during the Gaddafi regime 1 There is no electricity bill in Libya electricity is free for all its citizens 2 There is no interest on loans banks in Libya are state owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0 interest by law 3 A home is considered a human right in Libya Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home Gaddafi s father has died while him his wife and his mother were still living in a tent 4 All newlyweds in Libya receive 60 000 Dinar US 50 000 by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family 5 Education and medical treatments are free in Libya Before Gaddafi only 25 of Libyans were literate Today the figure is 83 6 Should Libyans want to take up farming career they would receive farming land a farming house equipments seeds and livestock to kick start their farms all for free 7 If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya the government funds them to go abroad for it not only free but they get US 2 300 mth accommodation and car allowance 8 In Libyan if a Libyan buys a car the government subsidized 50 of the price 9 The price of petrol in Libya is 0 14 per liter 10 Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to 150 billion now frozen globally 11 If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found 12 A portion of Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens 13 A mother who gave birth to a child receive US 5 000 14 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs 0 15 15 25 of Libyans have a university degree 16 Gaddafi carried out the world s largest irrigation project known as the Great Man Made River project to make water readily available throughout the desert country What improvements will Western intervention bring Any chance of a source Do not rejoice in his defeat you men For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard the female dog that bore him is in heat again Bertolt Brecht Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 36 PM 38 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord You can only say that because there was no election of any sort in 40 years to prove you wrong Wildly inaccurate http www google ie url sa t rct j luz5FZAjMHzYGQ But it is clear that no one fought for Gaddafi apart from a significant part of a well armed professional army that was significantly bolstered with foreign mercenaries The people rose up arms in hand The dictator fell It s all good Gaddafi was a tin pot dictator and all the people of Libya wanted a revolution against him the Libyan army is quite small and there were defections Under those circumstances do you think the Libyan people were not capable of getting a change of regime As a result of NATO involvement 40 000 odd people were killed Libya is deeply divided its infrastructure shot to pieces and a NATO installed technical government similar to the one in Italy has been installed All good Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 40 PM 39 Trow View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Sep 2010 Location The Grove Posts 3 472 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Trow Before we begin to assassinate individual characters surrounding the conflict in Libya and while asking were Libya is going lets look at what was during the Gaddafi regime 1 There is no electricity bill in Libya electricity is free for all its citizens 2 There is no interest on loans banks in Libya are state owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0 interest by law 3 A home is considered a human right in Libya Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home Gaddafi s father has died while him his wife and his mother were still living in a tent 4 All newlyweds in Libya receive 60 000 Dinar US 50 000 by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family 5 Education and medical treatments are free in Libya Before Gaddafi only 25 of Libyans were literate Today the figure is 83 6 Should Libyans want to take up farming career they would receive farming land a farming house equipments seeds and livestock to kick start their farms all for free 7 If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya the government funds them to go abroad for it not only free but they get US 2 300 mth accommodation and car allowance 8 In Libyan if a Libyan buys a car the government subsidized 50 of the price 9 The price of petrol in Libya is 0 14 per liter 10 Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to 150 billion now frozen globally 11 If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found 12 A portion of Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens 13 A mother who gave birth to a child receive US 5 000 14 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs 0 15 15 25 of Libyans have a university degree 16 Gaddafi carried out the world s largest irrigation project known as the Great Man Made River project to make water readily available throughout the desert country What improvements will Western intervention bring Originally Posted by Sam Lord Any chance of a source You might want to keep this link http domza blogspot com Happiness is an inside job Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 47 PM 40 Sam Lord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 16 006 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by C Flower Wildly inaccurate http www google ie url sa t rct j luz5FZAjMHzYGQ Keep drinking the Kool Aid Originally Posted by C Flower Gaddafi was a tin pot dictator and all the people of Libya wanted a revolution against him the Libyan army is quite small and there were defections Under those circumstances do you think the Libyan people were not capable of getting a change of regime They couldn t fight air power tanks artillery rocket launchers etc with some looted AK 47s and anti aircraft guns bolted to the back of pickups They tried and it was not working well They were not soldiers they were doctors engineers plumbers etc They may have won eventually I don t know but there is no reason to believe the death toll would have been any less I didn t ask the West to intervene the Libyan people did That was their call Originally Posted by C Flower As a result of NATO involvement 40 000 odd people were killed Libya is deeply divided its infrastructure shot to pieces and a NATO installed technical government similar to the one in Italy has been installed All good That is all a result of a dictator prefering to see his country destroyed rather than abandon power If he had gone when the people rose up there would have been no war no NATO involvement etc All down to him at the end of the day Do not rejoice in his defeat you men For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard the female dog that bore him is in heat again Bertolt Brecht Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 49 PM 41 People Korps Guest Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by people korps misrata http www bbc co uk news world africa 13102328 though the dope smoking demeanor of the mg was amusing when confronting reagan and beyond his regime was not he f ked up big time in his reactions to decent and that was foolhardy and to deny that is folly bump The civil war will follow Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 51 PM 42 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Trow You might want to keep this link http domza blogspot com Nice site CLR James on Hegel Reply With Quote 27 11 2011 11 57 PM 43 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Sam Lord Keep drinking the Kool Aid They couldn t fight air power tanks artillery rocket launchers etc with some looted AK 47s and anti aircraft guns bolted to the back of pickups They tried and it was not working well They were not soldiers they were doctors engineers plumbers etc They may have won eventually I don t know but there is no reason to believe the death toll would have been any less I didn t ask the West to intervene the Libyan people did That was their call That is all a result of a dictator prefering to see his country destroyed rather than abandon power If he had gone when the people rose up there would have been no war no NATO involvement etc All down to him at the end of the day Air power Where They fought the Libyan army to a standstill at Misrata did they not The support was clearly not anything like as universal as you suggest or else they were the most impatient revolutionary movement in history Bringing NATO in was in itself divisive and as you wrote yourself some of those fighting were clear that it was NATO they were fighting against You seem to be very much attached to parliamentary democracy as a model The current Libyan government is of course unelected does that not worry you at all Reply With Quote 17 12 2011 01 21 PM 44 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going US Defence Secretary Panetta in Tripoli to assess the security needs of the new government Is there anything to suggest that the Libyan Government is anything other than a US puppet This report includes a short video http english alarabiya net article 17 182968 html Some more of Libya s money has been released from the freezes imposed in the West Oil revenue is still right down and there are big costs in rebuilding ahead U S Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was in Tripoli on Saturday on the first visit to Libya by a Pentagon chief to study up close the security needs of the new government The purpose of my trip to Libya is to have an opportunity to look at that situation up close but to also pay tribute to the Libyan people to what they did in bringing Muammar Qaddafi down and trying to establish a government for the future Panetta told the traveling press There are going to be challenges here there are going to be difficulties but I think any country like Libya that was able to do what they did and showed the courage that they did I m confident that ultimately they re going to be able to succeed in putting a democracy together in Libya The indications I ve had are that they re making progress trying to bring the tribes together trying to get the country together Later addressing a joint news conference with Prime Minister Abdurrahim El Keib Panetta said Libya faced tough challenges in uniting the forces that toppled Gaddafi securing arms caches and building an army police force and democratic institutions This will be a long and difficult transition but I am confident that you will succeed he said Asked about the militias that wield the real power on Libya s streets Panetta said I m confident they the interim leaders are taking the right steps to reach out to all of these groups and bring them together so they will be part of one Libya and one defence system he is quoted by Reuters as saying I have a good sense that they know how to deal with it Earlier Panetta had told the AFP correspondent traveling with him Obviously we re prepared if they want to provide whatever assistance they ask us to do NATO countries have indicated the same willingness to do that The article also talks about threats to disarm the militias which would clearly be incendiary A few days back a militia check point fired on the new head of the armed forces as he didn t stop for them Reply With Quote 17 12 2011 01 30 PM 45 riposte View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Dec 2011 Location Kilmainham Posts 4 640 Re Post War Libya Where is it Going Originally Posted by Sam Lord You can only say that because there was no election of any sort in 40 years to prove you wrong But it is clear that no one fought for Gaddafi apart from a significant part of a well armed professional army that was significantly bolstered with foreign mercenaries The people rose up arms in hand The dictator fell It s all good How do you know so much about Libya Sam Politics is the art of looking for trouble finding it everywhere misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies Reply With Quote Page 3 of 23 First 1 2 3 4 5 13 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation Libya Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum 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  • Post War Libya - Where is it Going ? - Page 23
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  • Libya
    Employment Ireland the EFSF and the IMF World Economy European Economy The Irish Economy Exchequer Figures and Other Irish Economic Data The IFSC and German Banks in Ireland Privatisation PPPs and Outsourcing The Irish Oligarchy NAMA The National Asset Management Agency Anglo Irish Bank Scandal Irish Banks Crisis Not inc Anglo Irish Employment and Unemployment The Irish Bank Guarantee Mortgages and Personal Debt Irish Economic Overview and Analysis Sovereign Debt Irish Construction Industry and Property Price Rises and Drops inflation deflation Irish Budget 2014 Irish Budget 2016 Irish Budget 2015 Irish Budget 2013 Transport and Infrastructure Irish Budget 2011 2012 and 4 Year Plan 2011 2015 Elections and Referenda Forum Irish National Opinion Polls Forthcoming General Election 2014 2016 Carlow Kilkenny Constituency Forum Cavan Monaghan Constituency Forum Clare Constituency Forum Cork East Constituency Forum Cork North Central Constituency Forum Cork North West Constituency Forum Cork South Central Constituency Forum Cork South West Constituency Forum Kerry Constituency Forum Donegal Constituency Forum Dublin Fingal Constituency Forum Roscommon Galway Constituency Forum Dublin Rathdown Constituency Forum Dublin Bay South Constituency Forum Dublin Bay North Constituency Laois Constituency Forum Offaly Constituency Forum Tipperary Constituency Forum Limerick County Constituency Forum Sligo Leitrim Constituency Forum Dublin South Central Constituency Forum Dublin Central Constituency Forum Dublin Mid West Constituency Forum Dublin South West Constituency Forum Dublin North West Constituency Forum Dublin West Constituency Forum Dún Laoghaire Constituency Forum Galway East Constituency Forum Galway West Constituency Forum Kildare North Constituency Forum Kildare South Constituency Forum Limerick City Constituency Forum Longford West Meath Constituency Forum Louth Constituency Forum Mayo Constituency Forum Meath East Constituency Forum Meath West Constituency Forum Waterford Constituency Forum Wexford Constituency Forum Wicklow Constituency Forum Northern Ireland Elections European Election 2014 Northern Ireland Elections Local Councils Belfast City North Down and Ards District Antrim and Newtown Abbey District Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Newry City Mourne and Down District Armagh City Banbridge and Craigavon Mid and East Antrim District Causeway Coast and Glens District Mid Ulster District Derry City and Strabane District Fermanagh and Omagh District Irish By Elections Forum Southern Ireland Local Elections 2014 Carlow County Council Local Elections 2014 Louth County Council Local Elections 2014 Limerick County Council Local Elections 2014 Laios County Council Local Elections 2014 Kilkenny County Council Local Elections 2014 Kildare County Council Local Elections 2014 Kerry County Council Local Elections 2014 Dublin City Council Local Elections 2014 Cavan County Council Local Elections 2014 Galway City Council Local Elections 2014 Galway County Council Local Elections 2014 Fingal County Council Local Elections 2014 Roscommon County Council Local Elections 2014 Clare County Council Local Elections 2014 Cork City Council Local Elections 2014 Cork County Council Local Elections 2014 Donegal County Council Local Elections 2014 Meath County Council Local Elections 2014 Monaghan County Council Local Elections 2014 South Dublin County Council Local Elections 2014 Tipperary County Council Local Elections 2014 Waterford County Council Local Elections 2014 Westmeath County Council Local Elections 2014 Wexford County Council Local Elections 2014 Wicklow County Council Local Elections 2014 Sligo

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  • "Full Fledged Panic" - World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage - Global Capitalism Running Out of Road
    for the rest of the world And it s not just affecting the wristwatches which have always been too expensive for the regular mortals anyway Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 02 08 2011 11 46 PM 9 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by TotalMayhem And that is exactly their woe Swiss exports have become too expensive for the rest of the world And it s not just affecting the wristwatches which have always been too expensive for the regular mortals anyway Italy appears to be close to default Spain not far behind Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 00 AM 10 TotalMayhem View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jul 2010 Location Out of my mind Posts 11 813 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by C Flower Italy appears to be close to default Spain not far behind Too bad Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 07 AM 11 Apjp View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010 Location Meath Posts 7 794 Originally Posted by TotalMayhem Don t forget the Swiss Franc The only partially gold backed currency in the world was almost on par with the Euro today Great investment bet huge blow for the Swiss export economy That depends Many say swiss exports arent made to be cheap Im thinking watches luxury chocs etc Sent from my GT I5500 using Tapatalk Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 13 AM 12 TotalMayhem View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jul 2010 Location Out of my mind Posts 11 813 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage While many may think of watches cheese chocolate and cuckoo clocks that s not what makes the Swiss export industry tick Think pharmaceutical machinery and arms exports Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 19 AM 13 Fing Fers View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Mar 2010 Posts 794 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Cant wait the whole lot has to go bang only then will we see decent folk out working for our interests Untill then they ll keep kicking the can down the road how many corners have we turned now Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 53 AM 14 TotalMayhem View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jul 2010 Location Out of my mind Posts 11 813 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by Fing Fers Cant wait the whole lot has to go bang only then will we see decent folk out working for our interests Your lips to God s ear Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 08 07 AM 15 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Thanks for the contributions but I feel the need to bury this thread and start again The OP is not up to the requirements of the day Reply With Quote Page 1 of 38 1 2 3 11 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation World Economy Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas 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    gold price at the moment is another enormous bubble Currency is based on trust People have trusted the Dollar the Euro as a form of payment But maybe the Dollar has been trusted 14 Trillion times too many worldwide The Euro is worth whatever it is worth minus the debts of the PIIGS and others It s the old DM and a few Francs thrown in My guess is that the Dollar will collapse taking a few other currencies with them and the Euro will be devalued significantly but won t disappear Some currency will survive to take the place of the dollar as you mentioned but it will buy you a lot less precious metal than the dollar does at the moment Those with money are converting to gold and will purchase the new preferred reserve currency when it emerges in due course Interesting times Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 11 56 AM 20 yehbut nobut View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Apr 2010 Posts 626 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Move to Cloughjordan and join this www cloughjordancommunityfarm ie Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 12 04 PM 21 DCon View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Mar 2010 Location heart of Europe Posts 19 750 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by TotalMayhem What do you mean When the Euro was introduced 1 Euro bought you like CHF 1 62 now it s almost par CHF 1 08 Investors like the Swiss very much or shall we say their currency And it s even worse regarding the US Dollar in 2001 1 US Dollar bought you CHF 1 82 today it s only CHF 0 76 Back up over 1 10 after the Swiss national bank intervened a little today with announcements and interest rate directions thet are too scared to intervene directly as they lost billions earlier this year trying to help the currency Considers swiss franc to be massively overvalued at present Current strength of swiss franc is threatening development of the economy Current strength of swiss franc increasing the downside risks to price stability in Switzerland Narrowing target range for 3 month libor from 0 00 0 75 to 0 00 0 25 Aiming for a 3 month libor as close to zero as possible Will very significantly increase the supply of liquidity to the swiss franc money market over the next few days Intends to expand banks sight deposits at the SNB from currently around CHF 30 bln to CHF 80 bln Will no longer renew repos and SNB bills that fall due and will repurchase outstanding SNB bills Since SNB s last quarterly monetary policy assessment the global economic outlook has worsened At the same time the appreciation of the swiss franc has accelerated sharply during last few weeks Consequently the outlook for the swiss economy has deteriorated substantially Keeping a close watch on developments on the foreign exchange market Will take further measures against the strength of the swiss franc if necessary http www forexlive com blog 2011 0 g swiss franc Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other Oscar Ameringer Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 03 29 PM 22 DCon View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Mar 2010 Location heart of Europe Posts 19 750 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by DCon Back up over 1 10 after the Swiss national bank intervened a little today with announcements and interest rate directions thet are too scared to intervene directly as they lost billions earlier this year trying to help the currency http www forexlive com blog 2011 0 g swiss franc Respite over http www zerohedge com news swiss on epic fail 2 Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other Oscar Ameringer Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 10 19 PM 23 TotalMayhem View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jul 2010 Location Out of my mind Posts 11 813 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by DCon Back up over 1 10 after the Swiss national bank intervened a little today with announcements and interest rate directions The frame in which the Swiss can intervene is very narrow mind you they still have to redeem a certain percentage of their currency in gold which saw a massive hike on the market today almost 1 670 today compared to 1 625 yesterday Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 03 08 2011 10 58 PM 24 Dr FIVE View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Nov 2010 Location in the national interest Posts 17 571 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Brian Lucy posted this earlier worth a read Only 3 pages http www econ berkeley edu eichen ea 7 23 11 pdf Can the Euro Area Hit the Rewind Button With benefit of hindsight it is easy to conclude that Europe s leap to monetary union was a mistake Creating a single currency without also creating a single bank regulator an emergency lender and a credible set of fiscal rules gave Europe a common monetary house without a foundation Europe acquired shiny coins and elegant banknotes but not the other elements of a workable monetary union The need for these other elements may have been understood but the national governments participating in the monetary union refused to cede sovereignty over their banking financial and fiscal policies Now they are paying the price Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 12 47 AM 25 yehbut nobut View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Apr 2010 Posts 626 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Debt laden Italy is likely to default but Spain might just avoid it according to the British think tank the Centre for Economics and Business Research With the countries weighed down by debt the think tank modelled good and bad economic scenarios for both It found that Italy will not avoid default unless it sees an unlikely big jump in economic growth Even if the cost of borrowing goes back down to 4 the growth rate is so anaemic that we see the debt GDP ratio remaining at 123 in 2018 said Doug McWilliams the CEBR s chief executive The conditions in Spain are better because its debt is much lower Even under the bad scenario Madrid s debt ratio would climb to no higher than 75 of national output Fingers crossed but there is a real chance that Spain may avoid default and debt restructuring unless it gets dragged down by contagion Mr McWilliams said Realistically Italy is bound to default but Spain may just get away without having to do so he said http www bbc co uk news business 14396557 Now Here s Who Gets Smashed If Italy Goes Kaboom Greek banks hold 700 million in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Portuguese banks own 5 2 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Belgian banks hold 25 8 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters American banks hold 36 7 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Japanese banks hold 40 6 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Dutch banks own 45 3 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Irish Banks hold 46 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters Spanish banks own 47 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters British banks own 77 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters German banks own 190 billion in Italian debt Source NY Times Reuters French banks own 511 billion in Italian debt That s 20 of France s GDP and more than two times as much as Greece owes everyone Source NY Times Reuters We re bad but France Gulp Last edited by yehbut nobut 04 08 2011 at 12 59 AM Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 07 AM 26 Sidewinder View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Mar 2010 Location Derry Posts 1 800 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by FIVE Brian Lucy posted this earlier worth a read Only 3 pages http www econ berkeley edu eichen ea 7 23 11 pdf Can the Euro Area Hit the Rewind Button This was all drearily obvious and predictable The politicians and all their little helpers just can t stop their instinctive reaction In times of crisis find a way to meddle interfere Something Must Be Done there s empires to build and jobs under political control to be created get with the program there is no alternative blah blah blah It was always the case when the euro was created in such a half assed way that they were just itching for the first major crisis in order to ram through the other half of the project which they knew they would never get past the electorates in any other fashion It s the fundamental dishonesty of the Eurotrons going all the way back to Maastricht that turned me from agnostic to hostile on the entire deal If it requires deceit lies manipulation and cover up to advance its agenda then it can t be good Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 54 AM 27 unspecific View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Mar 2011 Posts 773 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Has anyone read this guy Great graph and explanations http yanisvaroufakis eu 2011 08 04 es not matter It looks like Italy is the tipping point alright That post above showing such French exposure and Belgian Dutch means that the eurozone won t be able to survive an Italian bailout Will the solution be a referendum in October handing fiscal powers to a new EU treasury creating ECB eurobonds Is there any other solution Perhaps a continuation of the pattern would be a World Financial Stability Fund Fascinating watching the world act as though it still had a financial system Using the toilet when the pipes are gone some guy on twitter Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 04 09 AM 28 Count Bobulescu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Wash DC Posts 6 408 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by yehbut nobut http www bbc co uk news business 14396557 Now Here s Who Gets Smashed If Italy Goes Kaboom We re bad but France Gulp Using the information provided by my calculation Ireland would seem to be THE MOST EXPOSED country to Italian debt relative to GDP and size of tax bases France is on the hook for about 11 times the amount Ireland is but has a population about 14 times the size of Ireland The least exposed countries are the ones that come before Ireland in the table All have larger populations Portugal with nearly three times the population only has only one ninth of the exposure so they are 25 27 times better off than Ireland USA with 70 times the population of Ireland is on the hook for less And unlike in other countries where the taxpayer does not own the banks to anything like the same degree The Irish taxpayer owns I ve noted before that in my view Business Insider is not a reliable source of quality information They are the Sun NOTW of biz info If they were any good they d have given the simple analysis I just did They are an aggregator just like HuffPo As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 05 11 AM 29 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by Sidewinder This was all drearily obvious and predictable The politicians and all their little helpers just can t stop their instinctive reaction In times of crisis find a way to meddle interfere Something Must Be Done there s empires to build and jobs under political control to be created get with the program there is no alternative blah blah blah It was always the case when the euro was created in such a half assed way that they were just itching for the first major crisis in order to ram through the other half of the project which they knew they would never get past the electorates in any other fashion It s the fundamental dishonesty of the Eurotrons going all the way back to Maastricht that turned me from agnostic to hostile on the entire deal If it requires deceit lies manipulation and cover up to advance its agenda then it can t be good Yes the thin end of the wedge has got progressively thicker I think the EFSF was a spoof originally like the Irish Bank Guarantee and the participants didn t expect to actually have to pay up I said so at the time Yanis V s article also says as much Like the Irish Guarantee if implemented the EFSF would wipe the participants out Yanis V wants a Eurobond and I hear Philip Lane saying European debt was manageable if shared around Europe He seems to live in a bubble and have no notion of politics and he cost to peoples lives The German working and middle classes took a hit on their living standards 10 years ago They will not be happy to pay off other peoples debt An economic union of Europe without an equal social and political union would be a disaster liable to fracture Given that the EU project was one entered into by separate capitalist states all wanting to benefit themselves at others expense and to jointly knock back the rights and benefits gained post war by social democracy and trade unionism that isn t going to happen Yanis eurobond just seems to be a bigger better Guarantee that doesn t anwer the problem of the debt The US debt is now becoming a real problem with China getting very jumpy about the potential for the collapse of the dollar Other countries who have healthier economies so far are now panicking about hot money seeking a refuge in their currency driving it up and making their exports unaffordable The indebted bankrupt countries are trying to restore value to their economies by cutting social spending and wage cutting driving up the rate of exploitation of people working This is simply not working but making indebtedness worse It is a situation with a risk of war in it downstream The alternative is simply to stop playing the profit game and to make stuff for use in planned economies with fair trade agreements Last edited by C Flower 04 08 2011 at 05 19 AM Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 06 44 AM 30 Captain Con O Sullivan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Mar 2010 Posts 12 034 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage If Ireland s banks are exposed to Italian debt alone at 48billion then I wonder what exposure Irish banks carrying in the other large and medium sized economies Also it occurs to me that this is a heavy clue that Irish banks have been trading way beyond their rational or permitted liquidity ratios If this sort of debt held by Irish banks is replicated around Europe then by definition the banks have obviously and historically been trading way beyond their capability to absorb losses Think National Act Local Oh and superstition is just the dark matter of human history Reply With Quote Page 2 of 38 First 1 2 3 4 12 Last Jump to page Quick Navigation World Economy Top Site Areas Settings Private Messages Subscriptions Who s Online Search Forums Forums Home Forums Political World Our Forum Community Welcome and Introductions Using this Forum Please Read Before Posting Events and Campaigns Political World Group Blog Political World Video Channel Off Topic Members Only Sports Bar Members Only Premoderated Threads Irish Politics News Politics and Current Affairs Irish Politics The State of the Nation The Presidency The Oireachtas The Daíl and Senate Oireachtas Weekly Schedules 31st Daíl Department of Transport and Communications Department of Finance The Department of the Taoiseach Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine Department of Public Services and Reform Department of Communications Energy and Natural Resources Department of Health Department of Education Department of Environment Housing Planning Department of Justice and Defence An Garda Siochána Department of Social Protection The Good Friday Agreement Irish Politics Politics of the North Information and Data Resources Irish Government Local Government in Ireland Ireland Political Parties and Groups Fine Gael The Green Party Fianna Fail Sinn Fein Amhrán Nua The Socialist Party The Labour Party Fís Nua Eirigí The Workers Party Workers Solidarity Movement Irish Liberal Party Direct Democracy Ireland The Peoples Movement The Peoples Alliance Democracy Now Spanish Irish Group Claiming Our Future Independents United Left Alliance ULA Conference 2012 Pre Conference Discussion Threads Irish Republican Socialist Party 32CSM NI21 Communist Party of Ireland The Peoples Convention WUAG Libertas Ganley CAWHT The Freeman Movement Attack

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?9044-quot-Full-Fledged-Panic-quot-World-Economic-Crisis-Moving-to-a-New-Stage-Global-Capitalism-Running-Out-of-Road/page2 (2016-02-09)
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    to print dollars at will but the Chinese sent a message to the US two days ago wanting to talk very seriously about dollar devaluation given that their profits savings are substantially in dollars A Chinese ratings agency downgraded the dollar the day before yesterday When the big bond repayments fall due in September it s hard to see that they can all be paid No country in the world has nearly as much mineral wealth as ireland via silver zinc and some harder to reach gold As we also have an underground saudi arabia you can see why the bankers contrived our economic collapse after the lesser collapse of 2000 Sent from my GT I5500 using Tapatalk Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 12 50 PM 38 Captain Con O Sullivan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Senior Member Join Date Mar 2010 Posts 12 034 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage True Irish leprechauns with their little baskets of gold are the new masters of the universe Think National Act Local Oh and superstition is just the dark matter of human history Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 12 51 PM 39 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage DCon and TM would you explain paper gold and the gold margin for the uninitiated me Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 12 57 PM 40 DCon View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Moderator Join Date Mar 2010 Location heart of Europe Posts 19 750 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by C Flower DCon and TM would you explain paper gold and the gold margin for the uninitiated me Paper Gold is trading on Gold derivatives essentially trading on the gold price without any gold changing hands This type of trading is typically done on margin so you are allowed buy sell 10 20 50 times the value of cash you have in your account If the margin increases you either need to boost the cash in your account or close some of your trades so typically a margin increase will see a lot of open trades closed Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other Oscar Ameringer Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 03 PM 41 bolshevik View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jan 2011 Location Cork Posts 895 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by DCon Paper Gold is trading on Gold derivatives essentially trading on the gold price without any gold changing hands This type of trading is typically done on margin so you are allowed buy sell 10 20 50 times the value of cash you have in your account If the margin increases you either need to boost the cash in your account or close some of your trades so typically a margin increase will see a lot of open trades closed And really trading here means betting in normal people speak Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 09 PM 42 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by DCon Paper Gold is trading on Gold derivatives essentially trading on the gold price without any gold changing hands This type of trading is typically done on margin so you are allowed buy sell 10 20 50 times the value of cash you have in your account If the margin increases you either need to boost the cash in your account or close some of your trades so typically a margin increase will see a lot of open trades closed Is this like the kind of trading that saw a NY trader have to accept delivery of a few hundred tonnes of sugar last year when caught holding the promise to buy or is it a Paddy Powers game with no link to any actual gold Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 11 PM 43 TotalMayhem View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Senior Member Join Date Jul 2010 Location Out of my mind Posts 11 813 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by C Flower TM would you explain paper gold Plain and simple What is Paper Gold The term paper gold means you have a piece of paper acting as a substitute for the physical gold With paper gold you don t own the gold you own a promise to receive physical gold In plain English it means you are a creditor of the corporation issuing the paper gold certificate thus subject to counterparty risks Owning the physical gold has no counterparty risk and is fully under your control Here s an in depth analysis as to how the scheme works LBMA Operates a Fractional Reserve Gold System And these folks do play hard ball You Don t Mess With The LBMA Assassination Attempt On Silver Market Manipulation Whistleblower Thus all which you call Sin Destruction in brief Evil that is my true element Reply With Quote 04 08 2011 01 14 PM 44 C Flower View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Administrator Join Date Feb 2010 Location Rockall Posts 74 918 Re Full Fledged Panic World Economic Crisis Moving to a New Stage Originally Posted by TotalMayhem Plain and simple Here s an in depth analysis as to how the scheme works LBMA Operates a Fractional Reserve Gold System And these folks do play hard ball You Don t Mess With The LBMA Assassination Attempt On Silver Market Manipulation

    Original URL path: http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?9044-quot-Full-Fledged-Panic-quot-World-Economic-Crisis-Moving-to-a-New-Stage-Global-Capitalism-Running-Out-of-Road/page3 (2016-02-09)
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