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  • Talk.Grammar
    Talk EscapingCurlyBracesInNowiki Home Talk ExtensibleByOmission Home Talk ExtensibleFormattingElementProposal Home Talk GenericExtensionElementProposal Home View Page Discussion V iew A ttach I nfo There are two paragraph rules JaredWilliams 17th Sep 2006 Thanks Just fix it next time you find something like this The grammar is not very good or accurate as it was written before the spec I will get to work on it soon Of course anyone is free to

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.Grammar (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Gregor Hagedorn
    of original wiki wasn t that bad and the wikis created based on it usually didn t change the worst parts they usually just changed enough simple and irrelevant details to be different Thus a markup that is simply best even if it was possible to design it woudn t really stand a chance There already were attempts to standarize wiki markup there is even an RFC somewhere But wiki is a tool used for humans for communication with other humans not with computer so the language used will have all the fuziness of natural language and there is nothing that can be done about it Creole has different goals first of all to define the most common things that everybody can agree on If there is something that the developers can t agree on it s best just left outside the specification It s better to have a widely adopted and working standard for even very basic functionality than a complete standard existing only on paper Comment GH I agree who would not Note how it still increases interoperability of wiki engines maybe not to the point where you can just switch engines and copy the page database but this would never be possible anyways because of different feature sets that the engines have The most important thing we hope to achieve with Creole is interoperability in terms of switching users not engines That is a user can visit some wiki add some text to pages leave some comments etc without haveing to invest his time into learning a new markup This makes the barrier smaller brings wiki communities closer together Another goal of this project apart from creating the specification is provoking some dialogue between the wiki developers making them communicate and exchange ideas and experiences and document them in form of this wiki We hope that even if wiki developers will not want to adapt Creole they can still benefit from our work RadomirDopieralski 2007 02 26 Many thanks for you comments Radomir You say it is not on the agenda but I still hope to inspire some thinking about content migration and interoperability I have wikis with a total of 10000 pages online under JSPWiki and feel locked in to this software I cannot currently afford to analyse all content deescape everything that need escaping under JSPWiki and reformat to a new Wiki style I do hope that even as a minor consideration making Creole help for these case would be useful To achieve that it is essential that Creole can be used as Creole only markup with all Wiki specific stuff moved into a Creole defined extension mechanism The real problem is the need to escape so much normal usage of Wiki specific characters in normal text If the native wiki markup is on the full set of this markup has to be analyzed and all text conflicting with this properly escaped Unfortunately the assumptions that Wiki markup does not occur in normal text are

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.GregorHagedorn (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Hard Line Breaks
    do hard line breaks In the ListMarkupLinebreakArgument it was assumed that there is software that also inserts hard line breaks Note that the line breaking may come from line wrapping software so it is not a question where you would put the dash If you turn on line wrap in an editor the editor will visually wrap the line You will find this behavior in almost all editors Those editors however do NOT insert hard line breaks that could be confused by parsers so that they make the errors above they only do it visually So far no one has brought up examples of such an editor or editor option that inserts hard line breaks into text Therefore this is considered as an irrelevant argument unless someone provides an example of an editor that is relevant in practice Gregor This is getting polemic The mystic software might be a simple Internet Explorer see http de selfhtml org html formulare eingabe htm bereiche umbruch Of course this is under control of Wiki software so it could be changed More relevant is my experience in TWiki discussion TWiki does not insert hard breaks where a lot of participants responded by hard wrapped paragraphs I don t know whether there is a browser setting overriding or whether they simply copy pasted into their editor forth and back The only editor I use is my email program which supports reformatting text to a given width Christoph Polemic in a sense that I wanted to cause a reaction since nobody so far has brought up concrete examples And indeed it did Yves brought up the text editors BBEdit and TextWrangler which have it as an option But since it is optional and they are not that common I wouldn t count it relevant to practice

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.HardLineBreaks (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Hard Space
    Space Your trail Talk ExtensibleFormattingElementProposal Home Talk GenericExtensionElementProposal Home Talk Grammar Home Talk GregorHagedorn Home Talk HardLineBreaks Home View Page Discussion V iew A ttach I nfo I couldn t find any way in the spec to put in a hard space which would not removed E g Row one vs Row one Isonomia 2008 Apr 28 There isn t YvesPiguet 2008 Apr 28 Logically speaking a hard space should be an escaped white space Obviously this may not be isn t possible which makes a space a bit of a special case alongside a hard newline br which should be This is a line of text uline continuation OK so it would appear that a hard newline is uline Accoding to wikipedia In Wikitext the character entity reference often represents NBSP In TeX and LaTeX a tilde is used to denote the hard space Assomeone who can t remember even though I use it regularly I wouldwholeheartedly try to disuade anyone from using nbsp would be asensible proposal but 10 1 people will not expect to suddenlydisappear everytime they put it into the text so I wouldn t support itsuse Other suggestions I have are An empty image An

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.HardSpace (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Headings
    A Creole is a language derived from a combinations of languages that allows communication between speakers of different tongues A Creole is by its nature inclusive so I argue that the shoe is on the other foot you have to make a case to exclude something Having said that here s the case for inclusion The convention that level 1 headings are page titles is a MediaWiki convention it is not used by all wikis So the answer to the statement I personally don t see why anyone would want to have level 1 headings if the title of a page is already level 1 is that page titles may not be level 1 headings for a particular wiki There are many wikis where level 1 headings are widely used When users of these wikis adopt Creole they will find things that they used to be able to type no longer work If someone wanted to migrate some wikitext from a wiki that used equals signs for headings there are quite a few but also used level one headings then they would either have the error prone task of adding an extra equals sign to all their headings or they would have to write or obtain a script Creole should not set policy it should leave that to the community that uses a particular wiki The community may have good reason to form a convention that level 1 headings should be used MartinBudden 2006 12 06 Thanks Martin for this good analysis It was a quick decission at the workshop there where so many other points Nobody gave it to much thought i guess We should allow level one headings in creole 0 3 ChristophSauer 2006 12 07 Thank you Martin for some very good reasoning Alex would you care to comment ChuckSmith 2006 12 07 I don t understand this discussion Creole just says that you need at least two equal signs to make a heading this is consistent with at least two characters for markup informal rule How you translate it to HTML is dependent on the engine used some engines have the h1 tag reserved for page titles others don t some might even lack headings at all and use div class heading or even please forgive me b The same wiki engine might even render headings differently depending whether the page title is present in normal view or not in print view Note that X HTML in the examples is just suggested markup I think that there is really not much to argue here RadomirDopieralski 2006 12 11 I must disagree with you Randomir about the number of signs One of the unofficial Goals states that elements should start with one characters adding more when required Also a quick survey of Headings on WikiMatrix gives the following results amongst Wiki engines that allow multiple headings in one way or another Starts at 1 or with one charater 68 Starts at 2 or with two characters 19

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.Headings (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Headings Reasoning
    Talk Grammar Home Talk GregorHagedorn Home Talk HardLineBreaks Home Talk HardSpace Home Talk Headings Home View Page Discussion V iew A ttach I nfo 141 7 56 2 I think you are mistaken about PmWiki Headings with exclamation marks are less is bigger not less is smaller the opposite of JSPWiki Or maybe you are aware of this and just don t want to make a new category for just one engine anonymous Chuck did the evaluation based on the Wikimatrix entries in case we didn t have a system in house The IP hints to the Heilbronn University Or maybe you are aware of this and just don t want to make a new category for just one engine Yes thanks for the hint The graph is mostly about the characters used There are two dimensions to headings The character itself and if less is bigger or smaller and the category you mentioned seems insignificat It s like with links you also have two things to care about the character itself and if link vs title comes first or last As a JSPWiki user with the creole headings order I feel fine even if that changed my way of

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.HeadingsReasoning (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Hints On Extending
    is dubious we can just remove the suggestion or the markup All of the markup mentioned here is optional and can be made into totally different things this is up to the developer This is not a specification RadomirDopieralski 2007 01 27 Thanks Radomir for taking the categories I suggested under consideration you did take them from my page didn t you I think that it would be nice to separate the spec in the same way EricChartre 2007 01 30 When preparing this list I was considering the point of view of a wiki developer who needs to extend Creole with certain feature his community misses thus he has to find markup that doesn t conflict with existing Creole rules and that is relatively unlike to conflict with other wikis I don t think that we need to also support the well I feel like extending Creole today wonder what new feature I could add point of view Btw not signing contribution on the main pages will allow others to modify the text RadomirDopieralski 2007 02 06 I like this approach for standardizing some of the markup and for making the block and inline markup consistent I am working on a plugin strategy for my wiki and need to solve the plugin markup problem My first cut was to use the remainder of the line after the pre formatted open marker as a place to set up plugin controls but this means other wiki engines will confuse this with vanilla plain pre formatted material So I changed to the tripple angle bracket not double it gets hard to parse a block with C code in it RoieBlack 2007 04 13 Yikes Friday I would like to state here that the categorization of block markup vs inline markup and its

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.HintsOnExtending (2016-02-11)
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  • Talk.Horizontal Line
    reserved license BY SA Sponsored by the Wiki Symposium and the Nuveon GmbH view find Quick search type ahead Recent Searches Clear Talk Horizontal Line Your trail Talk HardLineBreaks Home Talk HardSpace Home Talk Headings Home Talk HeadingsReasoning Home Talk HintsOnExtending Home View Page Discussion V iew A ttach I nfo I think we should specify that four or more characters on a line will create a single line Personally

    Original URL path: http://wikicreole.org/wiki/Talk.HorizontalLine (2016-02-11)
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