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  • David Miscavige, der grosse Chef von Scientology, ist ein verächtlicher Man - David Miscavige Go Home
    bestand uns zu zeigen dass er alle Rechte hatte Hier einige Beispiele In einem mit Angestellten überfüllten Aufzug zögerte David Miscavige nicht im Geringsten sich eine junge Frau vorzuknüpfen David Miscavige knüpfte sich unter vehementen Gesten sogar die Tochter von Ron Hubbard vor Das fand vor allen wichtigsten Verantwortlichen der Sea Org statt Indem David Miscavige Hubbards Tochter öffentlich dermassen anschrie wollte er uns zeigen dass er sein einziger Nachfolger ist David Miscavige der manchmal im gleichen Bus war der uns zur Unterkunft zurück brachte verlangte mal von mir in autoritärem Ton Steh auf Mach deinen Platz frei Da ich war müde und einiges älter als er weigerte ich mich und er wurde wütend Guillaume Lesèvre ein anderer Leiter von Scientology war bei ihm sah offensichtlich die Ungeschicklichkeit seines Chefs und mischte sich ein indem er mir erlaubte sitzen zu bleiben Indem er sich neben mich setzte fragte er mich was ich da mache Er war mir kurze Zeit zuvor anlässlich eines Besuchs der Scientology Kirche in Lausanne begegnet zum Zeitpunkt als aus der einfachen Mission die Organisation zur Kirche wurde Aber um den Fängen der Scientologen zu entgehen konnte ich ihm nur sagen dass alles gut läuft Man muss wissen dass die geringste Kritik oder Zögern als Zeichen des Verrats betrachtet wird das in der Folge der internen Polizei von Scientology gemeldet werden muss David Miscavige sprach mich nie wieder an Ich fühlte jedoch dass er ein Mann war der für seine Angestellten nur Verachtung übrig hatte Am nächsten Tag musste ich mich einer Sicherheitskontrolle unterziehen Man wollte unter anderem wissen wie es dazu kam dass ich einen Leiter von Scientology persönlich kannte Retrieved from http davidmiscavige wikiscientology org index php title David Miscavige der grosse Chef von Scientology ist ein verächtlicher Man oldid 96 Navigation menu Views Page

    Original URL path: http://davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/David_Miscavige,_der_grosse_Chef_von_Scientology,_ist_ein_ver%C3%A4chtlicher_Man (2016-02-12)
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  • David Miscavige - COB RTC - has not even studied the Org Exec Course OEC while "reorganizing the church" - David Miscavige Go Home
    Q I M TRYING TO HELP HIM FORMULATE HOW BEST TO RESPOND MR HERTZBERG WE HAVE TO FORMULATE THE BEST QUESTION FIRST BEFORE HE CAN RESPOND WHAT QUESTION ARE YOU ASKING YOU ASKED THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT QUESTIONS THERE IN SEQUENCE WHICH QUESTION DO YOU WANT HIM TO RESPOND TO MS PLEVIN I M TRYING TO GET HIM TO RESPOND TO A SIMPLE QUESTION IF HE STUDIED THE OEC COURSE Q DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION MR MISCAVIGE DID YOU STUDY THE OEC COURSE DID YOU TAKE THAT COURSE AND IF THERE S MORE THAN ONE COURSE LET S CLARIFY THAT MR HERTZBERG HE TESTIFIED TO THAT ALREADY THE WITNESS OKAY LET ME MR HERTZBERG THERE S NO SUCH THING AS THE OEC COURSE THE WITNESS THAT S CORRECT YOU DON T KNOW WHAT OEC MEANS OEC MEANS ORG EXEC COURSE SO YOU RE ASKING ME IF I TOOK THE ORG EXEC COURSE COURSE OF COURSE I DIDN T BECAUSE THERE S NO SUCH THING AS THE ORG EXEC COURSE COURSE BY MS PLEVIN Q BUT THERE S AN ORG EXECUTIVE COURSE A YES Q DID YOU TAKE THAT COURSE A WHICH ONE THAT S WHERE THE CONFUSION IS ENTERING HERE Q ALL RIGHT HOW MANY ARE THERE A WHEN NOW Q HOW MANY ORG EXECUTIVE COURSES ARE THERE NOW IS FINE A ARE THERE NOW MR HERTZBERG NOW TODAY MS PLEVIN NOW TODAY MR HERTZBERG I M GOING TO LET HIM ANSWER I M NOT SURE HOW THAT S RELEVANT TO ANYTHING IN THE COMPLAINT BUT YOU MAY ANSWER THE WITNESS I DON T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT I REALLY DON T YOU RE CONFUSING A SET OF VOLUMES WITH A COURSE WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU ASKING ME MS PLEVIN I THINK THE QUESTION STANDS FOR ITSELF MR HELLER WELL IF YOUR RESPONSE IS YOU CAN T UNDERSTAND THAT S YOUR RESPONSE DON T ANSWER A QUESTION YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT IS IT YOU DIDN T UNDERSTAND A YOU ASKED ME HOW MANY ORG EXECUTIVE COURSES ARE THERE Q NO I SAID HOW MANY A I DON T GET IT HOW MANY ORG EXECUTIVE COURSES THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS THAT S MY ANSWER Q HOW MANY HAVE YOU TAKEN SINCE EVER MR HERTZBERG WAIT YOU MEAN IN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT MR MISCAVIGE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY MS PLEVIN WELL IF THERE ARE TOO MANY TO MENTION I M SURE HE LL TELL ME THAT MR HERTZBERG FIRST OF ALL I M BEGINNING TO PERCEIVE A LITTLE SARCASM LET S KEEP THIS ON AN EVEN KEEL MISS PLEVIN HE CAN ANSWER I THINK THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMPLAINT BUT IF YOU CAN APPROXIMATE OR IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION AND YOU CAN APPROXIMATE TELL CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS THE WITNESS OKAY I LL TRY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT I M TALKING ABOUT THERE ARE A SET OF VOLUMES CALLED THE OEC VOLUMES MEANING THE

    Original URL path: http://davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/David_Miscavige_-_COB_RTC_-_has_not_even_studied_the_Org_Exec_Course_OEC_while_%22reorganizing_the_church%22 (2016-02-12)
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  • David Miscavige says "The war is over" and counts the IRS to his best friends - David Miscavige Go Home
    begin with we will waste no time carrying news of this new breakthrough to all foreign countries Those battles have been being held in place by suppressive governments just quoting the IRS The line has been You are an American religion If the IRS doesn t recognize you why should we The answer is They do And now you better as well Make no mistake there is much work to be done on those fronts But we have already taken the first steps in using this IRS victory to end the rest of the battles What about all of the false reports I mentioned tonight We are now in possession of them and will be receiving many more documents out of our files We will diligently work to clean up all false reports But there is another step that will go a long way in cleaning up the false representations the IRS has made about us The IRS has agreed to send out leaflets to the governments of every nation These letters will state that they have done a thorough review of all Scientology activities from top to bottom and having found nothing wrong fully recognize us as a bona fide and qualified tax exempt organization to the full extent of the law Furthermore they will be attaching to each of these letters a printed fact sheet on Scientology that explains what Scientology really is Who LRH is and what all of our organizations are It is very complete and very accurate How do I know We wrote it And the IRS will be sending it out to every government in the world Even Interpol will receive our fact sheet directly from the IRS That s what it looks like visual The real thing I want you to understand is that we didn t just get exemption we ended a war We wanted to end all conflicts to have a fresh start to get rid of any potential future conflicts so some SP couldn t start it all up again It took time It took a lot of work It resulted in a peace treaty I even brought a copy of it to show you This represents what it took to resolve each and every outstanding conflict with the IRS Here is a photo It shows the handshake when this was all over picture Represented in this picture are each and every person from the IRS side and our side But I have another picture to show you It is this one picture You can see how happy Norman Heber Marty and myself are But who is that giving the thumbs up on the left That s right the IRS Let me be clear These people once our enemy now see us as friends And for my part the feeling is mutual But I would like to thank 3 individuals who were there on the front lines helping to fight this battle They are Marty Rathbun Norman Starkey and Heber

    Original URL path: http://davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/David_Miscavige_says_%22The_war_is_over%22_and_counts_the_IRS_to_his_best_friends (2016-02-12)
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  • Deposition of David Miscavige, the Witness, July 19, 1990 - Part 1 - David Miscavige Go Home
    ANY KIND OF MOTION CONCERNING YOUR ALTER EGO THEORY BECAUSE THAT S FICTION MS PLEVIN WELL HE STATED FINE MR HELLER YOU RE TELLING US JUDGE LYTHAM IS GOING TO GRANT A MOTION HE HASN T SEEN SO THAT IS YOUR STATEMENT MS PLEVIN THAT S MR HERTZBERG LET S GO ON MS PLEVIN HIS STATEMENTS IN COURT WILL STAND MR HERTZBERG LET S MOVE ON MS PLEVIN WOULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION PLEASE RECORD READ THE WITNESS I CAN T ANSWER THAT QUESTION I DON T KNOW WHAT IT IS IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT IT IS BY MS PLEVIN Q DIDN T YOU AT ONE POINT INSTRUCT D D REISDORF TO GET HARD ON THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE PERSONNEL A NO Q DIDN T YOU HAVE HER BUSTED BECAUSE SHE DIDN T DO SO MR HERTZBERG WHAT DOES BUSTED MEAN THE WITNESS NO MS PLEVIN HE UNDERSTOOD THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION Q DIDN T YOU ASK BILL FRANKS AT ONE POINT TO GO CLEAN UP THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE A NO AND AS A MATTER OF FACT THAT S A RIDICULOUS QUESTION AND SO FAR FROM THE MARK Q WHAT DID YOU ASK BILL FRANKS TO DO MR HELLER AT ANY TIME ANYPLACE MS PLEVIN WITH RESPECT TO THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE MR HELLER IF ANYTHING THE WITNESS YES WHEN BY MS PLEVIN Q WITH RESPECT TO THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SPECIAL PROJECT WHICH WE VE BEEN DISCUSSING A NOTHING NOT IN THAT CONTEXT Q WAS D D REISDORF INSTRUCTED TO HAVE ANY ROLE IN CONNECTION WITH CLEANING UP THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE MR HERTZBERG BY WHOM MS PLEVIN TO MR MISCAVIGE S KNOWLEDGE BY ANYONE THE WITNESS INSTRUCTIONS NO BY MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU AT ANY TIME ASSIGN OR ASK VICKY AZANARAN TO TAKE ON ANY ROLE WITH REGARD TO THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE AND THE PROBLEMS THAT WERE PART OF THE SPECIAL PROJECT A NO YOU VE GOT YOU VE GOT THIS MIXED UP YOU RE MIXING APPLES AND ORANGES MS PLEVIN OKAY CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT WERE THE PROBLEMS THAT WERE HANDLED A WHAT PROBLEMS Q YES A FROM MY PERSPECTIVE YOU BET I HANDLED Q YES YOU SAID THEM NOW WHAT WERE YOU REFERRING TO MR HELLER WELL WAIT A MINUTE THE TESTIMONY WASN T YOU BET I HANDLED THEM YOU SAID WERE THEY HANDLED I BELIEVE BUT I M NOT GOING TO SAY THE RECORD SAYS THERE S A QUESTION PENDING DON T CHARACTERIZE THE RECORD MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS WHAT IS THE QUESTION THAT I HANDLED BY MS PLEVIN Q YOUR TESTIMONY WAS THAT THEY WERE HANDLED AND YOU USED THE PHRASE YOU BET THEY WERE HANDLED WHAT IS YOUR KNOWLEDGE REGARDING HOW THEY WERE HANDLED A AND Q AND WHAT THEY WERE A THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE WHICH ONE Q WHAT THEY WERE AND HOW THEY WERE HANDLED LET S START WITH WHAT THEY WERE A OKAY AND TO CLARIFY OKAY WHAT THEY WERE THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE WAS OFF SOURCE Q ANYTHING ELSE A THAT S A GOOD GENERAL DESCRIPTION THAT IS THE MOST DIRECT SUCCINCT ANSWER I COULD GIVE YOU THAT COVERS WHATEVER ELSE Q AND THIS IS IN THE PERIOD AFTER A LARGE NUMBER OF GUARDIAN S OFFICE PERSONNEL WERE INDICTED FOR A LARGE NUMBER OF FEDERAL CRIMES MR HERTZBERG THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED HE HAS TOLD YOU THE DATE MS PLEVIN I M PUTTING IT IN CONTEXT NOW MR HERTZBERG NOT THE DATE MR DRESCHER IT S TOTALLY IRRELEVANT MR HERTZBERG NO YOU RE TESTIFYING MS PLEVIN OKAY MR HERTZBERG DON T ANSWER THAT QUESTION IT S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED TWICE MS PLEVIN THE RECORD WILL STAND FOR ITSELF AND WE WILL PROCEED WITH MOTIONS TO COMPEL AS NECESSARY Q ALL RIGHT HOW WAS IT HANDLED HOW WERE THE PROBLEMS HANDLED A GUARDIAN S OFFICE WAS DISBANDED Q WHEN WAS IT DISBANDED A 1981 Q WERE ANY OF ITS FUNCTIONS OR ZONES OF RESPONSIBILITY TRANSFERRED TO ANY OTHER ORG OR ENTITY OR CORPORATION A I DON T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT Q WELL GUARDIAN S OFFICE HAD CERTAIN FUNCTIONS WITH RESPECT TO LEGAL MATTERS DID IT NOT A I BELIEVE SO I TO CLARIFY THAT I BELIEVE SO BUT I NEVER WAS IN THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE Q OKAY ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER ENTITY OR ORGANIZATION TAKING OVER THOSE FUNCTIONS A JUST ONE SECOND EXCUSE ME CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS THE WITNESS I M NOT AWARE OF ANY TRANSFER OF THOSE FUNCTIONS BY MS PLEVIN Q OKAY ARE YOU AWARE OF WHO OVERSAW THE DISBANDING OF THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT MR LIEBERMAN I THINK THE WORD OVERSAW IS A LITTLE UNCLEAR IN THAT QUESTION BY MS PLEVIN Q WELL THERE S THE ACTIVITY OF DOING SOMETHING AND THEN THERE S A PERSON TO WHOM THE PERSON PERFORMING THAT ACTION MIGHT REPORT I D LIKE TO KNOW WHO OVERSAW IT AND WE LL GO FROM THERE CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS MS PLEVIN CONFERENCE WITH COUNSEL THE WITNESS OKAY ALL RIGHT YOU RE ASKING ME THE QUESTION LIKE WHO OVERSAW IT IT WAS AN EVOLUTION THAT TOOK PLACE BY MS PLEVIN Q SO THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE EVOLVED INTO NOT RUNNING THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE ANYMORE A NO NO NO YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THERE I SAID IT WAS AN EVOLUTION Q I UNDERSTOOD THAT WHO OVERSAW A I DON T MEAN THE EVOLUTION OF MAN OR THE EVOLUTION OF THE ORGANIZATION I MEANT IT WAS AN EVOLUTION OF ACTIVITY Q WHO OVERSAW THAT CHANGING PROCESS A VARIOUS PEOPLE Q INCLUDING WHO MR HERTZBERG DO YOU WANT HIM TO LIST EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT MS PLEVIN I DON T KNOW IF THERE S A DOZEN OR TWO MR MISCAVIGE THE WITNESS I COULDN T ANSWER ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN IT BY MS PLEVIN Q YOU WERE INVOLVED IN IT WEREN T YOU A OH OF COURSE Q AND DID YOU HAVE ANY SUPERVISORY RESPONSIBILITY REGARDING THE ACTIVITIES OF THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN IT A SOMEWHAT INITIALLY Q OKAY DID YOU DROP OUT OF THAT YOU SAY INITIALLY WOULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT A YOU KNOW OKAY YEAH I WAS A CATALYST THERE YOU GO Q OKAY AND IN WHAT WAY WERE YOU A CATALYST A WELL JUST BY WHAT THE WORD MEANS I INITIATED IT Q AND WHAT POSITIONS DID YOU HOLD AT THE TIME YOU INITIATED THE DISBANDING OF THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE A WHAT POSITIONS DID I HOLD Q IN A RELATIVE Q LET S START WITH THAT RELATIVE TO THAT A I I WAS ON NO POST THAT SAID GO AND DISBAND THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE Q I M SORRY YOU SAID A I HAD NO POST THAT HAD A POST RESPONSIBILITY OR DUTY TO GO AND DISBAND THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE Q WHAT POSTS DID YOU HAVE A AT THAT TIME Q YES A SPECIAL PROJECTS OPS I BELIEVE Q AND WHO APPOINTED YOU TO SPECIAL PROJECT OPS A GAIL IRWIN OR D D REISDORF I BELIEVE IT WAS GAIL IRWIN I M THAT S WHAT I THINK IT WAS ONE OF THOSE TWO BUT I M QUITE SURE IT WAS GAIL Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE GAIL IRWIN IS NOW A NO Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE S BEEN IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS A NO IDEA Q WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU KNEW WHERE GAIL IRWIN WAS LOCATED A 1981 I BELIEVE Q I THINK YOU SAID SHE WAS A COMMODORE S MESSENGER IS SHE STILL A COMMODORE S MESSENGER A NO Q IS SHE STILL TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE INVOLVED IN ANY POSITION IN SCIENTOLOGY A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY POSITION Q I MEAN POST A NO Q WHAT WAS THE PROJECT ALL CLEAR A THE PROJECT ALL CLEAR WAS A PROJECT TO IT WAS A LEGAL PROJECT TO DEAL WITH LEGAL CASES Q IN WHAT WAY WHAT WAS THE GOAL MR HERTZBERG I M GOING TO I AM GOING TO ALLOW HIM TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT IT DOESN T DISCLOSE MATTERS DISCUSSED IN THE CONFIDENTIAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ATTORNEY AND CLIENT MS PLEVIN OF COURSE MR HERTZBERG IF YOU CAN SUBJECT TO THAT QUALIFICATION ANSWER IT AND IF YOU CAN T IF THERE S NO ANSWER OTHER THAN MATTERS THAT WOULD COMPROMISE THE PRIVILEGE YOU LL TELL COUNSEL THE WITNESS OKAY MS PLEVIN COLLOQUY WITH COUNSEL CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS THE WITNESS THE ANSWER IS I HAVE NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THAT THAT S THE ANSWER BY MS PLEVIN Q YOU HAD NO INVOLVEMENT WITH ALL CLEAR A NO I DIDN T NO INVOLVEMENT WITH WHAT YOU ASKED ME ABOUT PROJECT ALL CLEAR Q I M TALKING ABOUT PROJECT ALL CLEAR MR HERTZBERG NO NO NO NO WAIT A MOMENT MY RECOLLECTION IS YOU ASKED HIM ABOUT THE LEGAL MR MISCAVIGE GAVE YOU TESTIMONY THAT THERE WAS A LEGAL ASPECT TO THE PROJECT AND I BELIEVE HIS ANSWER WAS RESPONSIVE TO THAT QUESTION MS PLEVIN WOULD YOU GO BACK AND READ MR MISCAVIGE S ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF WHAT WAS THE PROJECT ALL CLEAR RECORD READ BY MS PLEVIN Q NOW IN WHAT WAY WAS IT DEALING WITH LEGAL CASES MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT YOU MAY ANSWER TO THE EXTENT THAT IT DOESN T DISCLOSE CONFIDENCES IN THE ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP THE WITNESS OKAY WHAT I KNOW OF PROJECT ALL CLEAR AND TO MAKE IT CLEAR JUST HERE I I PERSONALLY WAS NOT INVOLVED IN PROJECT ALL CLEAR NOR DID I IN OTHER WORDS I KNOW ABOUT THIS BUT IT WAS A PROJECT PERSONNEL TO HANDLE THE LEGAL CASES OF SCIENTOLOGY WORLD WIDE TO THE END RESULT OF DEALING WITH ANY LEGAL PROBLEMS AND IT WAS POST GUARDIAN S OFFICE AND I THINK THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION MS PLEVIN Q SO YOUR TESTIMONY THEN STRIKE THAT IT WAS NOT A PROJECT TO MAKE L R H SAFE FROM LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR SCIENTOLOGY MATTERS A OF COURSE NOT MR DRESCHER POST A CONTINUING OBJECTION BASED ON RELEVANCE TO EVERYTHING THAT S BEEN ASKED SINCE WE CAME BACK FROM LUNCH I JUST NOTE THAT HERE AND THE UNDUE CONSUMPTION OF WASTING TIME MS PLEVIN Q OKAY AND YOU DID NOT SUPERVISE TERRY GAMBOA AND NORMAN STARKEY WITH REGARD TO THAT PROJECT IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY MR HERTZBERG CONTINUING OBJECTION MR DRESCHER HE DIDN T TESTIFY TO MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU SUPERVISE TERRY GAMBOA OR NORMAN STARKEY WITH REGARD TO THE PROJECT ALL CLEAR A NO Q DID YOU ASSIST THEM A NO MR HERTZBERG LET ME LET ME TELL YOU MISS PLEVIN THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM I HAVE AND THEN WE LL CONTINUE THERE IS NO ALLEGATION IN THIS COMPLAINT THAT ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH A SO CALLED PROJECT ALL CLEAR RESULTED IN ANYTHING BEING DONE TO MR CORYDON I JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU FROM TIME TO TIME OF WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE THE GENERAL SCOPE OF THE INQUIRY THAT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE HERE SO ALL THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT ALL CLEAR WHO SUPERVISED WHOM IN TIMES OR REMOTE ARE REALLY A WASTE OF TIME BUT LET US PROCEED MS PLEVIN Q NOW DO YOU KNOW WHO LYMAN STARKEY I M SORRY LYMAN SPURLOCK A YES Q DO YOU KNOW OR CAN YOU RECALL TODAY WHAT CORPORATE POSITIONS HE HAS HELD FROM 1981 FORWARD MR HERTZBERG WAIT A MINUTE BEFORE HE ANSWERS THAT ARE YOU MAINTAINING THAT LYMAN SPURLOCK DID SOMETHING TO YOUR CLIENT MS PLEVIN LYMAN SPURLOCK IS IDENTIFIED IN THE COMPLAINT AS ONE OF THE PERSONS WITH WHOM AUTHORITY RESIDES IN SCIENTOLOGY MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT I M ASKING ARE YOU MAINTAINING THAT LYMAN SPURLOCK DID ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO YOUR CLIENT THAT HE DID ANYTHING MS PLEVIN THE COMPLAINT STANDS FOR ITSELF ARE YOU TELLING HIM NOT TO ANSWER MR HERTZBERG WELL I D LIKE I M NOT BUT I D LIKE SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE START MR HELLER LET S HAVE A PROFFER OF RELEVANCE WHAT IS THE PROFFER OF YOU KNOW HOW TO SPELL HIS NAME YOU PUT IT IN THE COMPLAINT WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH BENT CORYDON IF YOU SAY THE WORDS ALTER EGO IT DOES NOT HAVE TO RELATE TO YOUR CLIENT THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE ALTER EGO THEORY IS THAT IT INURES TO THE PREJUDICE OF YOUR CLIENT INDEED YOU HAVE A RATHER STRANGE ALTER EGO TO BEGIN WITH NOW THERE IS SOME LEEWAY IN THAT TO MAKE A DETERMINATION BUT NOT LEEWAY TO ASK ANY QUESTION THAT YOU FEEL LIKE ASKING I THINK MR HERTZBERG IS WELL WITHIN HIS RIGHTS MS PLEVIN MR HERTZBERG I WOULD APPRECIATE IF WE COULD HAVE INSTEAD OF HAVING THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE TALKING AT THE SAME TIME AND ALL WALKING AROUND CREATING A LOT OF CONFUSION IF WE COULD NOT ARE YOU INSTRUCTING MR MISCAVIGE NOT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION I LL GO ON IF YOU ARE MR HERTZBERG WHAT IS THE PENDING QUESTION MS PLEVIN PLEASE READ BACK THE PENDING QUESTION RECORD READ THE WITNESS NO BY MS PLEVIN Q IN 1982 DID YOU ATTEND IN OCTOBER OF 1982 DID YOU ATTEND A MEETING IN SAN FRANCISCO KNOWN AS THE MISSION HOLDERS CONFERENCE A YES I DID Q DID YOU HAVE ANY ZONE OF RESPONSIBILITY IN TERMS OF PLANNING OVERSEEING THAT CONFERENCE A I DON T KNOW WHAT THAT QUESTION MEANS Q WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DON T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE QUESTION MR MISCAVIGE A WHAT YOU MEAN Q ALL RIGHT LET S BACK UP YOU ATTENDED THAT CONFERENCE A YES I DID Q AND YOU PARTICIPATED AS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS OF THAT CONFERENCE A MASTER OF CEREMONIES I BELIEVE Q AND BEFORE GOING INTO THAT CONFERENCE YOU WERE AWARE OF WHAT THE CONTENT OF CONFERENCE WAS GOING TO BE A SOMEWHAT MR HERTZBERG YOU MEAN LIKE HE WAS GOING TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN MS PLEVIN NO WHAT THE AGENDA OF CONFERENCE WAS THE WITNESS AGENDA MEANING WHO WAS GOING TO SPEAK YES MS PLEVIN Q AND ABOUT WHAT A NOT EVERYTHING NO Q WAS ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF THAT CONFERENCE TO ANNOUNCE TO THE MISSION HOLDERS CHANGES IN THE CORPORATE STRUCTURE OF SCIENTOLOGY A YES Q OKAY AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE PLANS THE WORK THAT WENT ON PRIOR TO THE CONFERENCE IN DEVELOPING THOSE CHANGES A FAMILIAR WHY DON T YOU DEFINE THAT FOR ME WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT Q ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OF THE A AWARE Q OF THE WORK THAT WENT ON THE PROBLEMS THEY WERE ADDRESSING MR HERTZBERG YOU MEAN LIKE LEGAL MATTERS THAT ATTORNEYS WERE GIVING ADVICE ON THAT TYPE OF THING MS PLEVIN I HAVEN T SUGGESTED THAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WHETHER HE WAS AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN TERMS OF THE PLANNING FOR THAT FOR THE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE CONFERENCE THE WITNESS CAN I JUST SEPARATE SOMETHING HERE BY MS PLEVIN Q PLEASE DO A YOU HAVE CONFERENCE AND THE CHANGES CONNECTED THEY DON T CONNECT AT ALL Q OKAY WELL LET S SEE IF WE CAN EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE BIT THEY WERE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE CONFERENCE A THAT S RIGHT Q OKAY A THERE YOU GO THERE YOU GO Q NOW AS TO THE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE CONFERENCE DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THE STUDIES OR THE PLANNING THAT WERE PART OF THE EVOLUTION THAT LED TO THOSE CHANGES OF THE DECISION MAKING THAT LED TO THOSE QUESTIONS MR DRESCHER OBJECTION ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE MR HELLER ALSO AMBIGUOUS MR HERTZBERG WAIT JUST TO CLARIFY BECAUSE I THINK MR DRESCHER S OBSERVATION IS WELL TAKEN YOUR QUESTION ASSUMES THAT THERE WAS A PLANNING WHY DON T WE LAY A FOUNDATION I THINK IT WILL GO FASTER THAT WAY BY MS PLEVIN Q THE TESTIMONY IS THAT THERE WERE CHANGES A YES Q OKAY NOW SOMEONE WAS INVOLVED SOME PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN DECIDING THERE SHOULD BE CHANGES OR THINKING ABOUT WHAT KINDS OF CHANGES THERE SHOULD BE EXPLORING THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH A RIGHT Q WERE YOU INVOLVED IN ANY OF THAT A WHAT THE PROBLEMS WERE Q WITH THAT WHOLE COMPLEX CONFERRING WITH OTHERS REGARDING THE PROBLEMS CONSIDERING OPTIONS AND SO FORTH A WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT CONFERRING WITH OTHERS ABOUT THE PROBLEMS Q YES A SOMEWHAT YES Q AND WITH WHOM DID YOU CONFER A ATTORNEYS Q ON BEHALF OF WHAT ENTITY DID YOU CONFER A AS A SCIENTOLOGIST I DID Q YOU DIDN T HAVE ANY POSTS THAT GAVE YOU THAT AUTHORITY A TO TALK ABOUT PROBLEMS I THINK ANYBODY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD COULD TALK ABOUT PROBLEMS AND THAT S HOW I ANSWERED THAT QUESTION I WAS AWARE OF PROBLEMS I MADE MY KNOWLEDGE KNOWN Q DID ANYONE ASK YOU TO TAKE ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY A OF MAKING MY PROBLEMS KNOWN NO Q DID ANYONE ASK YOU TO TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CONFERRING WITH ATTORNEYS REGARDING WHAT LET S CALL IT THE CORPORATE CHANGES A DID I SAY THAT THAT S WHAT I DID Q YOU SAID A YOU ASKED ME ABOUT THE PROBLEMS Q YES A AND I TOLD YOU I COMMUNICATED PROBLEMS Q YES A RIGHT MR HERTZBERG HE DIDN T SAY HE TALKED ABOUT CORPORATE CHANGES BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT POSTS DID YOU HOLD AT THE TIME THAT YOU CONFERRED WITH COUNSEL MR HERTZBERG ASKED AND ANSWERED BY MS PLEVIN Q DO YOU RECALL MR HERTZBERG ASKED AND ANSWERED IT S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED MS PLEVIN Q YOU DIDN T HOLD ANY POSTS AT ALL IS AT RIGHT MR MISCAVIGE MR HERTZBERG IT S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED MS PLEVIN OKAY Q DID ANYONE ASK YOU TO DISCUSS THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL MR HERTZBERG THAT S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED MS PLEVIN WITH COUNSEL NO HE HASN T ANSWERED THAT QUESTION MR HERTZBERG MR HERTZBERG YOU RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT YOU RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT YOU RE MISTAKEN THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION WAS NOT ASKED AND ANSWERED MS PLEVIN Q DID ANYONE ASK YOU TO MAKE THOSE ENQUIRIES A INQUIRIES I MADE KNOWN PROBLEMS THAT I UNIQUELY KNEW NO NOBODY ASKED ME TO MAKE THOSE KNOWN Q AND DID YOU CONFER WITH ANY OTHER PERSONS REGARDING THOSE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO SPEAKING TO COUNSEL A YES Q WITH WHOM A LOTS OF PEOPLE Q DID L R H ASK YOU TO CONFER WITH COUNSEL REGARDING PROBLEMS WITH THE CORPORATE STRUCTURE MR LIEBERMAN THAT IS ASKED AND ANSWERED MR HERTZBERG THAT S ASKED AND ANSWERED THE WITNESS OKAY MS PLEVIN Q HE DID NOT MR HERTZBERG ASKED AND ANSWERED MR LIEBERMAN HE TESTIFIED THAT NO ONE HAD MS PLEVIN Q BESIDES CONFERRING WITH COUNSEL DID PARTICIPATE IN ANY DECISION MAKING REGARDING ADOPTING COUNSEL S RECOMMENDATIONS A FOR WHAT Q WELL IS IT ACCURATE TO SAY THAT PRIOR TO 1981 THERE WAS NO SUCH CORPORATION ACTUALLY I THINK IT WAS PRIOR TO 1982 I M NOT ACTUALLY SURE THERE WAS NO CORPORATION KNOWN AS RTC RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION A I DON T KNOW THE EXACT INCORPORATION DATE OF RTC SO I CAN T ANSWER THAT Q OKAY BUT THE MR DRESCHER INCIDENTALLY IT S RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER NOT RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION BY MS PLEVIN Q BUT RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION WAS ONE OF THE CORPORATIONS THAT WAS FORMED IN THE MONTHS PRIOR TO THE OCTOBER 17 CONFERENCE AND WAS PART OF THE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE OCTOBER 17 1982 CONFERENCE ISN T THAT SO MR HERTZBERG WHEN YOU SAY FORMED I MEAN HE HAS JUST TESTIFIED THAT HE DOESN T KNOW THE DATE OF INCORPORATION SO I M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY FORMED I DON T WANT MR MISCAVIGE TO GET SANDBAGGED HERE MR HELLER IT S COMPOUND TOO BY MS PLEVIN Q THE RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER WAS ONE OF THE NEW CORPORATIONS INCORPORATED AS A RESULT OF THE DISCUSSION OF PROBLEMS THAT YOU VE MENTIONED A AS A RESULT OF MY DISCUSSION OF PROBLEMS Q NO AS A RESULT OF THE ACTIVITIES THE STUDIES THE WORK THE DISCUSSIONS THE CONFERENCES WITH COUNSEL THAT LED TO THE CORPORATE CHANGES WHICH WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE MISSION HOLDERS MEETING A YES Q AND CSI WAS SIMILARLY INCORPORATED AS A RESULT OF THOSE ACTIVITIES A I DON T KNOW THAT IT WAS THE SAME ONES BUT PRIOR TO THE MISSION HOLDERS CONFERENCE IN 1982 Q YES A YES Q OKAY AND ASI WAS INCORPORATED AS A RESULT OF THAT SERIES OF DISCUSSIONS AND ACTIVITIES A THAT SERIES OF DISCUSSIONS Q YES A AS A RESULT OF THAT NO Q AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME A SOMEWHERE IN THAT TIME PERIOD YES Q OKAY AND CSC VARIOUS FUNCTIONS AND UNITS WITHIN CSC WERE TRANSFERRED OUT OF CSC TO OTHER ENTITIES AS A RESULT OF THOSE ACTIVITIES MR HERTZBERG ARE YOU TALKING NOW ABOUT SOME LEGAL LEGAL CORPORATE TRANSFER MS PLEVIN WELL WE LL TURN EXACTLY TO WHAT TRANSPIRED AT THE IN THE ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT WERE MADE OCTOBER 17 1982 I DON T THINK THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY I DON T THINK THIS IS HITTING ANY TREMENDOUSLY ARCANE OR SECRET SPOTS OR LEGAL YOU KNOW ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE THESE WERE ANNOUNCED AT THE OCTOBER 17 1982 MISSION HOLDERS CONFERENCE MR HERTZBERG WELL I MEAN IF THAT S THE WAY YOU WANT TO PHRASE IT I M NOT SURE WHY WE RE DISCUSSING THIS AT ALL BUT I M NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING ABOUT ARCANE OR ANYTHING ELSE I AM TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU RE ASKING QUESTIONS WITH A FOUNDATION THAT MR MISCAVIGE IS CAPABLE OF RESPONDING TO AND SO YOU ASKED A VERY GENERAL QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER CERTAIN CORPORATE ENTITIES WERE TRANSFERRED OUT AND YOU KNOW THERE S NO PREDICATE FOR WHETHER HE MAY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT SPECIFIC CORPORATE ENTITIES AS OPPOSED TO LAWYERS OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT IT S I DON T WANT HIM SPECULATING ABOUT MS PLEVIN I DON T WANT HIM SPECULATING EITHER MR HERTZBERG LET S SEE IF CAN MAKE IT EASIER FOR MR MISCAVIGE SO HE DOESN T HAVE TO GUESS THE WITNESS OKAY MS PLEVIN Q OKAY AND IT MAY REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION TO LOOK OVER A TRANSCRIPT IF YOU WISH I HAVE A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT CONFERENCE DO YOU RECALL THAT MR SPURLOCK A I LL HAVE THE TRANSCRIPT IF YOU WANT ASK ME A QUESTION Q WELL BEFORE WE GET TO THAT LET ME ASK YOU DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT MR SPURLOCK PARTICIPATED ON THE AGENDA IN ANNOUNCING THE CORPORATE STRUCTURE CHANGES A YES Q AND YOU INTRODUCED HIM A WELL I D HAVE TO CHECK YOUR TRANSCRIPT BUT I ASSUME SO YES Q YOU DON T RECALL HOLD ON A YOU GAVE ME TWO COPIES HERE IS THAT ONE FOR HIM Q FINE BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE AND IT S QUITE LENGTHY SO I M NOT ASKING YOU TO READ THE WHOLE THING BUT HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT MEETING MR HERTZBERG OKAY WAIT A MINUTE IF YOU RE ASKING WHETHER HE S SEEN THE DOCUMENT BEFORE HE WHATEVER THE LENGTH HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT IT TO GIVE YOU AN ACCURATE ANSWER IF YOU RE ASKING HIM WHETHER HE EVER SAW A TRANSCRIPT OF THE MISSION HOLDERS CONFERENCE BEFORE WHETHER THIS ONE IS ONE OR NOT THAT S A SEPARATE QUESTION MS PLEVIN Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A TRANSCRIPT A YES Q OKAY ALL RIGHT LET S TAKE A LOOK THIS DOCUMENT IN ANY EVENT A OKAY MR HERTZBERG MISS PLEVIN MAY I ASK ONE QUESTION OUT OF CURIOSITY MS PLEVIN WHATEVER YOU WANT MR HERTZBERG WHAT ARE THE NUMBERS THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER MS PLEVIN I M SORRY MR HERTZBERG WHAT ARE THOSE MS PLEVIN THOSE ARE THE BATES STAMPED NUMBERS THIS WAS PROVIDED TO YOU IN DOCUMENTATION MR HERTZBERG THESE ARE YOUR BATES STAMPS MS PLEVIN YES MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT BY MS PLEVIN Q I BELIEVE IT S ON PAGE 3 THAT YOU INTRODUCED MR SPURLOCK MR HERTZBERG WAIT A MINUTE YOU MEAN ACCORDING TO THIS TRANSCRIPT MS PLEVIN ACCORDING TO THIS TRANSCRIPT MR HERTZBERG YOU WANT HIM TO READ NOW AND CONFIRM WHETHER THIS TRANSCRIPT REFLECTS THAT MR MISCAVIGE INTRODUCED MR SPURLOCK MS PLEVIN WELL IF IT REFRESHES HIS RECOLLECTION MR HERTZBERG BUT HE ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT HE INTRODUCED MR SPURLOCK MS PLEVIN ALL RIGHT NOW MR HERTZBERG DIDN T HE ALREADY TESTIFY TO THAT MS PLEVIN EXCUSE ME MR HERTZBERG Q THE LAST PARAGRAPH ON THAT PAGE MR MISCAVIGE SAYS THAT MR WARRANT OFFICER LYMAN SPURLOCK IS THE CORPORATE AFFAIRS DIRECTOR DO YOU SEE THAT A IS SHE ASKING ME OR YOU MR HERTZBERG SHE S ASKING YOU MR HELLER DO YOU SEE IT THE WITNESS YES I SEE IT BY MS PLEVIN Q DO YOU RECALL INTRODUCING HIM IN THAT FASHION A NO I DON T RECALL Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE HAD A POSITION THAT WAS ENTITLED CORPORATE AFFAIRS DIRECTOR A I BELIEVE HE DID Q WITH WHAT CORPORATION A POSSIBLY NUMEROUS I DON T KNOW Q AT THE SAME TIME A NO NO Q OKAY AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME WHICH IS OCTOBER OF 1982 IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WOULD REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT POSITION YOU MAY HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO AND WHAT CORPORATION YOU MAY HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO MR HELLER IS THERE ANYTHING AT ALL IN EXISTENCE THAT MIGHT REFRESH HIS RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE QUESTION OKAY IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT OBJECT ON RELEVANCE WHAT S THE DIFFERENCE IF SOMETHING EXISTS THAT REFRESHES HIS RECOLLECTION MR HERTZBERG YOU MAY ANSWER THE WITNESS I DON T KNOW BY MS PLEVIN Q ALL RIGHT BY THE WAY YOU ARE IDENTIFIED HERE AS COMMANDER DAVID MISCAVIGE A RIGHT Q COMMANDER OF WHAT A IT S A SEA ORGANIZATION RANK Q IS THAT YOUR CURRENT RANK A NO IT S NOT Q WHAT IS IT A CAPTAIN Q WERE YOU BUSTED A NO MR HERTZBERG I ASSUME THAT WAS MADE IN JEST BY MS PLEVIN Q IS THERE SOME EXPLANATION FOR THE CHANGE FROM COMMODORE TO CAPTAIN IS THAT A PROMOTION A COMMANDER Q I M SORRY COMMANDER OKAY FROM COMMANDER TO CAPTAIN A WHAT S THE QUESTION MR HERTZBERG IS THERE SOME EXPLANATION FOR IT MR DRESCHER WHAT S THE RELEVANCE MS PLEVIN FORGET IT MR HERTZBERG OKAY LET S MOVE ON MS PLEVIN YOU GUYS REALLY Q NOW THAT MEETING WAS TAPE RECORDED TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE REFERRING TO THE MISSION HOLDERS MEETING OF OCTOBER 17 19827 A I BELIEVE SO Q AND THAT TAPE WAS TRANSCRIBED AND SENT TO MISSION HOLDERS TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE A I BELIEVE SO Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS EDITED BEFORE IT WAS TRANSCRIBED A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY EDITED Q WORDS CHANGED WORDS OMITTED A I DON T BELIEVE SO I MEAN PEOPLE OF COURSE I M SURE WERE SNEEZING AND COUGHING AND I DON T SEE THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT Q PERHAPS YOU CAN EXPLAIN A I DON T KNOW THOUGH I HAVEN T I DIDN T I DON T KNOW Q OKAY DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE TAPES ARE A NO I DON T Q YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IS TOWARDS THE TOP OF PAGE 4 MR SPURLOCK STATES THAT PRIOR TO THE END OF 1981 A FEW OF US GOT TOGETHER AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE CORPORATE STRUCTURE OF THE CHURCH WITH A VIEW IN MIND OF MAKING IT MORE DEFENSIBLE AND MORE REGULAR AND TO MAKE AN OVERALL IMPROVEMENT AND THEN HE REFERS TO A CHART WHEN SAYS A FEW OF US WHO IS HE TALKING ABOUT YOU KNOW MR HELLER CALLS FOR SPECULATION MS PLEVIN IF YOU KNOW MR HERTZBERG DO YOU KNOW WHO LYMAN SPURLOCK HAD IN MIND WHEN HE USED THE TERM A FEW OF US OR WOULD YOU GUESS WHO HE HAD IN MIND THE WITNESS I WOULD HAVE TO GUESS WHO HE HAD IN MIND BY MS PLEVIN Q WERE YOU ONE OF THE PEOPLE HE HAD IN MIND MR HERTZBERG WOULD YOU HAVE TO GUESS THE WITNESS YEAH I DON T KNOW WHAT HE WAS THINKING WHEN HE SAID THIS BY MS PLEVIN Q WERE YOU ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO GOT TOGETHER WITH MR SPURLOCK AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE CORPORATE STRUCTURE WITH A VIEW IN MIND OF MAKING IT MORE DEFENSIBLE AND REGULAR WOULD THAT ACCURATELY CHARACTERIZE YOUR ACTIVITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED BY MR SPURLOCK A LET ME JUST READ THIS HERE MR HELLER FIRST OF ALL YOU HAVE SPECULATION SECONDLY YOU HAVE TWO QUESTIONS THERE THE WITNESS I DON T BELIEVE SO NO NOT THIS BY MS PLEVIN Q WERE THE PROBLEMS THAT MR SPURLOCK REFERRED TO IN THIS PARAGRAPH THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS YOU WERE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAID YOU CONSULTED COUNSEL MR HELLER SPECULATION MR HERTZBERG INSOFAR AS THAT WOULD DISCLOSE THE CONTENTS OF I DON T WANT MR MISCAVIGE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION INSOFAR AS IT WOULD DISCLOSE THE CONTENTS OF ANY CONVERSATIONS HE HAD WITH COUNSEL WITH RESPECT TO LEGAL ADVICE MS PLEVIN I M NOT ASKING HIM WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT WITH COUNSEL I M ASKING ABOUT WHAT THE PROBLEMS WERE THAT HE CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT THAT LED HIM TO CONSULT WITH COUNSEL MR HERTZBERG NO NO FIRST OF ALL THAT S NOT THE WAY YOU ASKED IT AND SECONDLY YOU ASKED WHETHER CERTAIN PROBLEMS WERE THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS THEY DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL AND FRANKLY ALTHOUGH MR MISCAVIGE MAY DISAGREE WITH ME I DON T SEE HOW HE COULD ANSWER THAT WITHOUT DISCLOSING THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HE OF AREAS THAT WERE DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL AND THAT S WHY I MADE THAT OBSERVATION MS PLEVIN ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER MR HERTZBERG NO I M NOT I M INSTRUCTING HIM TO ANSWER IF HE CAN IF WITHOUT REFERRING TO SUBJECT MATTERS THAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL THE WITNESS OKAY COULD I HEAR THE QUESTION AGAIN PLEASE MS PLEVIN WHY DON T YOU READ IT BACK PLEASE RECORD READ MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT ADDITIONALLY HE S ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT HE DOESN T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT MR SPURLOCK WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE ONLY MR SPURLOCK SAID THESE WORDS HE DIDN T SAY THEM MS PLEVIN I M NOT ASKING HIM TO SPECULATE AS TO WHAT MR SPURLOCK WAS THINKING I M ASKING MR MISCAVIGE WERE THESE THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS HE HAD IN MIND WHEN HE DECIDED TO CONSULT COUNSEL THAT IN THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT LED TO THE CORPORATE CHANGES WHICH WERE ANNOUNCED AT THIS MEETING THE WITNESS WELL WHAT I SAID WAS I MADE KNOWN PROBLEMS I KNEW AND THE ANSWER IS NO THESE WEREN T THE ONES BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT WERE THE ONES YOU DID MR HERTZBERG HE CAN ONLY ANSWER THAT INSOFAR AS THAT DOES NOT DISCLOSE AREAS AND THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HE MS PLEVIN I M NOT ASKING HIM WHAT HE DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL I M ASKING HIM WHAT THE PROBLEMS WERE THAT HE HAD IN MIND THAT LED HIM TO COUNSEL CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS MS PLEVIN CONFERENCE WITH COUNSEL Q CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION MR HERTZBERG GO AHEAD YOU RE ASKING YOU RE ASKING WHAT PROBLEMS MR MISCAVIGE HAD IN MIND WHEN HE WENT AND SPOKE TO COUNSEL MS PLEVIN YES MR DRESCHER WITHOUT DISCLOSING WHAT HE MIGHT HAVE TOLD COUNSEL MR HERTZBERG YES IT S INSEPARABLE THE PROBLEM HAVE THAT HIS TELLING YOU WHAT HE HAD IN MIND IS TANTAMOUNT TO TELLING YOU WHAT HE DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL MS PLEVIN YOU RE INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER MR HERTZBERG IF HE CAN T MS PLEVIN IF YOU RE INSTRUCTING TO HIM NOT TO ANSWER LET S MOVE ON MR HERTZBERG I M NOT INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER I M TELLING HIM HE CAN ANSWER ONLY IF YOUR ANSWER DOES NOT DISCLOSE THE AREAS THAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH COUNSEL CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS MS PLEVIN CONFERENCE WITH COUNSEL THE WITNESS ALL RIGHT THE FOLLOWING I WILL SAY THE FOLLOWING ABOUT IT ALTHOUGH AS MR HERTZBERG SAID THESE ARE MATTERS I DID DISCUSS WITH COUNSEL NO THE PROBLEMS I HAD IN MIND THAT I UNIQUELY WAS AWARE OF ARE TWO IN NATURE ONE WAS THE EXPERIENCE I HAD WITH THE GUARDIAN S OFFICE AND THE FACT OF THEM GOING OFF SOURCE AND NEEDING TO BE HANDLED AND THE SECOND WAS THE MISSION HOLDERS MUTINY THAT TOOK PLACE IN AT THE FLAG LAND BASE WHEREBY I CAME UPON THE INSTANCE OF MISSION HOLDERS WANTING TO TAKE RESERVES OF ALL OF SCIENTOLOGY FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT AND THEIR OWN PROFIT THOSE WERE THE ONLY PROBLEMS THAT I KNEW OF THAT HAD COME UP MS PLEVIN Q OKAY NOW WHEN YOU SAY THAT TO DISCLOSE FURTHER YOU WOULD BE DISCLOSING ATTORNEY CLIENT CONFIDENCES LET ME ASK YOU THIS WHO WAS THE CLIENT MR HERTZBERG WHEN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MS PLEVIN I M REFERRING TO MR MISCAVIGE S ANSWER MR HERTZBERG NOW HE ANSWERED GAVE YOU AN ANSWER AS TO WHAT THE TOPICS WERE MS PLEVIN I WANT TO KNOW WHO THE CLIENT WAS MR HERTZBERG I VE GOT TO CONFER WITH MY CLIENT BECAUSE I M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR QUESTIONS INTRUDING ON THE ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS MS PLEVIN YOU CAN T ASSERT AN ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE IF YOU RE NOT THE CLIENT THEY RE LEAVING THE DEPOSITION ROOM MR HERTZBERG WE RE NOT LEAVING THE DEPOSITION WE RE STEPPING INTO THE HALL MS PLEVIN I DIDN T SAY YOU WERE LEAVING THE DEPOSITION I SAID YOU WERE LEAVING THE DEPOSITION ROOM RECESS TAKEN MR HERTZBERG YOU MAY ANSWER THE WITNESS CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA BY MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU HAVE ANY POSITION WITH CSC AT THE TIME A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY POSITION Q DID YOU HAVE ANY POSITION IN CSC AT THE TIME A I BELIEVE I WAS EMPLOYED BY THEM Q AND WHAT WAS YOUR CAPACITY A EMPLOYEE Q WHAT WAS YOUR TITLE A OH EITHER CHIEF OFFICER CMO INT OR SPECIAL PROJECT OPS Q WOULD YOU TURN TO PAGE 26 PLEASE LET S SEE IF I CAN FIND ABOUT THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE MR MISCAVIGE YOU INTRODUCE GUILLONE LESEVRE A GUILLONE LESEVRE YOU DON T PRONOUNCE THE Q L E S E V R E AS THE NEW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR INTERNATIONAL I THINK IT S THE THIRD SENTENCE THERE YOU SAY ALTHOUGH HE S NOT YOUR DIRECT SENIOR DIRECT IS UNDERLINED HE IS SENIOR BOTH CORPORATELY AND ECCLESIASTICALLY TO MISSIONS A MM HMM Q WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT A JUST WHAT IT SAYS Q WELL COULD YOU A ASSUMING THESE ARE MY EXACT WORDS Q OKAY IS THAT IN ESSENCE IS THAT CORRECT HOWEVER I MEAN A AT THAT TIME I CAN T RECALL BUT IF I SAID IT I M GUESSING THAT IT WAS Q OKAY IN WHAT WAY COULD YOU ELABORATE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BOTH CORPORATELY AND ECCLESIASTICALLY SENIOR MISSIONS EVEN THOUGH HE S NOT THEIR DIRECT SENIOR A WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT TO KNOW CORPORATE OR ECCLESIASTICALLY Q BOTH LET S TAKE ONE AT A TIME A LET S TAKE ECCLESIASTICALLY AS DIRECTOR OF CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY HE CERTAINLY HOLDS A SENIOR ECCLESIASTICAL POSITION OVER THE MISSIONS HE IS ONE OF THE TOP RANKING MEMBERS OF SCIENTOLOGY AND MISSIONS ARE ONE OF THE BOTTOM RANKING I THINK THAT S PRETTY CLEAR Q WELL OKAY AND CORPORATELY WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT A

    Original URL path: http://davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/Deposition_of_David_Miscavige,_the_Witness,_July_19,_1990_-_Part_1 (2016-02-12)
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  • Deposition of David Miscavige, the Witness, July 19, 1990 - Part 2 - David Miscavige Go Home
    OF THE OPINION THAT ANY OF THEM SHOULD BE DECLARED BY MS PLEVIN Q WHERE DID THIS CONVERSATION TAKE PLACE A I THINK IT WAS AT GILMAN HOT SPRINGS Q FACE TO FACE A YES Q ANYBODY ELSE PRESENT A I CAN T RECALL Q ANYONE ELSE PRESENT AT YOUR EARLIER CONVERSATION MR HERTZBERG WHAT EARLIER CONVERSATION MS PLEVIN WITH MISS AZANARAN THE FIRST ONE YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THE WITNESS POSSIBLY POSSIBLY STEVE MARLOWE THAT S WHO COMES TO MIND BY MS PLEVIN Q WAS THAT IN A MEETING OF SOME KIND A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY A MEETING OF SOME KIND Q A SCHEDULED MEETING A NO Q A PLANNED MEETING A NO Q WHAT WAS MR MARLOWE S POSITION AT THE TIME IF YOU RECALL A HE ALSO WAS I BELIEVE EMPLOYED BY RTC AND AT THAT TIME NO I DON T KNOW I DON T KNOW I KNOW THAT THEY WERE I DON T KNOW I M SORRY I CAN T RECALL Q THE NEXT CONVERSATION WITH MISS AZANARAN TO THE BEST THAT YOU RECALL REGARDING MR CORYDON MR HERTZBERG WELL AGAIN I THINK JUST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR I THINK MR MISCAVIGE HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT UNLESS HE STATES OTHERWISE THE CONVERSATIONS ARE NOT ABOUT BENT CORYDON THEY ARE CONVERSATIONS IN WHICH MR CORYDON S NAME MAY HAVE BEEN EITHER MENTIONED OR SUBSUMED MS PLEVIN CORRECT UNDERSTOOD MR HERTZBERG I JUST DON T WANT A MISUNDERSTANDING ON THE RECORD THE WITNESS THE NEXT CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE MR HELLER WELL THE OTHER MISUNDERSTANDING EXCUSE ME TO BE HONEST I THINK YOU SAID THAT THESE WEREN T NECESSARILY CHRONOLOGICAL THE WITNESS I M TRYING TO THINK MS PLEVIN THAT S BEEN CLARIFIED FOR THE RECORD THE WITNESS I M TRYING TO THINK CHRONOLOGICALLY JUST SO I M CLEAR BUT MS PLEVIN SURE THE WITNESS IF I MISS ONE HERE OR THERE MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS OKAY THE NEXT CONVERSATION LET ME JUST ASK YOU SOMETHING ATTORNEY CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD THE WITNESS OKAY THE NEXT CONVERSATION THAT I DON T REMEMBER THE DATE IS SOMETIME AFTER BENT ANNOUNCED HIMSELF AS A SQUIRREL FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS CONVERSATION WITH VICKI AND AFTER HE FROM MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS CONVERSATION WITH VICKI EXECUTED AN ILLEGAL CORPORATE SWITCH OVER OF HIS BUILDING HIS MISSION BUILDING AND ALSO SOME OTHER ILLEGAL CORPORATE SHENANIGANS I DON T KNOW THE DATE BY MS PLEVIN Q DID MISS AZANARAN TELL YOU THAT MR CORYDON HAD ANNOUNCED HIMSELF TO BE A SQUIRREL A I DON T RECALL IF SHE PUT IT THAT WAY Q IT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT BY HIS ACTIONS HE WAS A SQUIRREL A NO I M RELAYING WHAT TOOK PLACE IN THAT CONVERSATION Q OKAY FROM WHAT MS AZANARAN SAID WHETHER YOU EXPRESSED THIS TO HER OR NOT WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT MR CORYDON WAS A SQUIRREL A YES Q ANYTHING ELSE THAT TRANSPIRED IN THAT CONVERSATION A SHE BASICALLY TOLD ME THAT BENT CORYDON HAD A RIVERSIDE MISSION AND THAT HE HAD SOMEHOW TRANSFERRED THE BUILDING I THINK INTO HIS NAME I M NOT SURE IF THAT S EXACTLY HOW IT WENT INTO HIS NAME PERSONALLY AND HAD LEFT THE CHURCH OR RESIGNED AND THE OTHER PART WAS HER COMMENT TO ME THAT I TOLD YOU YOU SHOULD NEVER TRUST THESE GUYS THIS GUY IS A COMPLETE CRIMINAL HE S NOW RIPPED OFF THIS BUILDING I TOLD YOU BEFORE THAT THESE GUYS ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN THEIR OWN MONEY AND BACK POCKET NOW THIS GUY HAS TAKEN THE BUILDING BECAUSE HE WAS ONLY INTERESTED IN HIS OWN PRIVATE GAIN AND HE S A SQUIRREL AND OH AND YOU KNOW CAN YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW PEOPLE IN GENERAL I THINK IT WASN T BENT I MEAN THAT THEY RE DELUSORY THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE THE POWER OF SCIENTOLOGY AS A SUBJECT AND THAT THEY RE PARASITES AND THEY DON T REALIZE THIS THAT WAS BASICALLY IT Q WHERE DID THIS CONVERSATION TAKE PLACE A EITHER IN LOS ANGELES OR GILMAN HOT SPRINGS Q WHEN YOU SAY LOS ANGELES ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE CEDARS OF LEBANON COMPLEX OR THE BLUE BUILDINGS A NO I M REFERRING TO THE CITY Q WOULD IT HAVE BEEN AT THE BLUE BUILDINGS A I DON T RECALL Q DID SHE HAVE AN OFFICE THERE DO YOU RECALL A AT THAT TIME I DON T RECALL NO Q DID YOU HAVE AN OFFICE IN LOS ANGELES AT THAT TIME A YES Q WHERE WAS THAT A THAT WAS IN LOS ANGELES Q DO YOU RECALL THE ADDRESS A I BELIEVE I D HAVE TO GET THE DATE ON THIS NO I DON T RECALL EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS AT THAT TIME NO Q BASED ON YOUR TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION DID THIS CONVERSATION TAKE PLACE BEFORE OR AFTER A LAWSUIT HAD BEEN FILED AGAINST MR CORYDON AND HIS GROUP A I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF ANY OF THAT I DON T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT EVEN Q OKAY WELL ARE YOU AWARE THAT A LAWSUIT WAS FILED MR HERTZBERG A LAWSUIT MS PLEVIN IN THE END OF 1982 FILED ON DECEMBER 31 1982 OF COURSE YOU WOULDN T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT MR HERTZBERG WELL MS PLEVIN AGAINST MR CORYDON INDIVIDUALLY AND THE GROUP THAT HE AND THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE ASSOCIATED WITH HIM HAD FORMED CALLED CHURCH OF SCIOLOGOS DEALING WITH THE ISSUES YOU DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY THAT MS AZANARAN DISCUSSED WITH YOU THE WITNESS I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT BENT CORYDON HAD SUED THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN IS THAT WHAT YOU RE TALKING ABOUT MS PLEVIN NO THE WITNESS OKAY THEN I DON T KNOW WHAT YOU RE TALKING ABOUT BY MS PLEVIN Q A LAWSUIT WAS FILED A THIS ONE THIS LAWSUIT Q NO I M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT A OKAY Q WE RE BACK AT THE END OF 1982 A OKAY Q I M TRYING TO PUT THE CONTEXT OF THIS CONVERSATION WITH MISS AZANARAN IN SOME TIME FRAME A OKAY Q THE FIRST OF THE LAWSUITS BETWEEN MR CORYDON AND HIS ASSOCIATES AND SCIENTOLOGY ENTITIES WAS COMMENCED AT THE VERY END OF 1982 A IS THAT WHEN IT WAS Q BY A GROUP CALLING ITSELF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY MISSION OF RIVERSIDE AND CLAIMING TO BE THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY RIVERSIDE A WITH THE CHURCH SUING THEM Q SUING MR CORYDON AND THE CHURCH OF SCIOLOGOS A ALL RIGHT MR HERTZBERG IS THAT A QUESTION OR ARE YOU TELLING HIM THAT NOW BY MS PLEVIN Q ARE YOU AWARE THAT A LAWSUIT WAS FILED A NO Q OKAY DID YOU EVER BECOME AWARE THAT A LAWSUIT WAS FILED TO GAIN TITLE TO THE MISSION OF RIVERSIDE BUILDING A BUILDING THAT HAD BEEN THE MISSION OF RIVERSIDE MR DRESCHER I M GOING TO OBJECT THAT S VAGUE AND AMBIGUOUS UNINTELLIGIBLE LACKS FACTS IT S JUST INCOMPLETE AND UNINTELLIGIBLE MR HERTZBERG WHY DON T YOU REPHRASE IT AND BE MORE SPECIFIC MS PLEVIN OKAY LET S GO BACK Q BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MS AZANARAN DID YOU SUGGEST TO HER TO TAKE ANY SPECIFIC ACTION A NO Q DID YOU ORDER HER TO TAKE ANY SPECIFIC ACTION A NO I DIDN T Q DID YOU CONTEMPLATE A LAWSUIT AGAINST MR CORYDON AND HIS GROUP A DID I Q YES YOU A OF COURSE NOT Q TO BE BROAD A LAWSUIT DID YOU CONTEMPLATE A LAWSUIT TO BE BROUGHT ON BEHALF OF ANY SCIENTOLOGY CORPORATION OR ENTITY AGAINST MR CORYDON A NO Q AND HIS GROUP A NO Q OKAY THERE WAS ARE YOU AWARE JUST NOW WITH THAT BACKGROUND ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE WAS A LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST MR CORYDON AND HIS GROUP FOR THE POSSESSION AND TITLE TO THE BUILDING THAT WAS THE MISSION OF RIVERSIDE MR HERTZBERG WE RE BACK TO THE SAME PROBLEM YOU SAY WITH THAT BACKGROUND THE BACKGROUND WAS TWO QUESTIONS BY YOU TO WHICH MR MISCAVIGE MS PLEVIN WHAT MR HERTZBERG ANSWERED NO HE DIDN T ORDER THAT A LAWSUIT BE BROUGHT MS PLEVIN ALL RIGHT STRIKE IT GO AHEAD MR HERTZBERG OKAY MS PLEVIN OKAY Q WERE YOU AT THAT TIME CONCERNED REGARDING THE POSSESSION AND OWNERSHIP OF THE BUILDING IN RIVERSIDE WHICH WAS THE MISSION OF RIVERSIDE BUILDING A WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CONCERNED MR HERTZBERG WELL THE WITNESS CONCERNED WHAT DOES THAT MEAN BY MS PLEVIN Q WELL MS AZANARAN TOLD YOU MR CORYDON HAD TRANSFERRED THAT TO HIS NAME A UH HUH Q DID YOU CONSIDER AT THAT TIME DOING ANYTHING OR REQUESTING THAT ANYTHING BE DONE TO RECOVER THE POSSESSION OF THAT BUILDING FOR ANY SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATION MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT INSOFAR AS OTHER THAN BRINGING A LAWSUIT WHICH HE ALREADY SAID HE DIDN T CONSIDER THAT SO YOU RE TALKING ABOUT DID HE CONSIDER SOMETHING OTHER THAN A LAWSUIT WHICH HE DIDN T CONSIDER BRINGING TO BE DONE IS THAT WHAT YOU RE ASKING MS PLEVIN I DON T KNOW THAT THAT WAS THE PRIOR QUESTION MR HERTZBERG MR HERTZBERG IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION YOU CAN ANSWER IT THE WITNESS I THINK I MIGHT LET ME CLARIFY THIS VICKI WAS TELLING ME ABOUT THIS MS PLEVIN RIGHT THE WITNESS I WASN T TELLING HER MS PLEVIN RIGHT THE WITNESS YOU ASKED IF I WAS CONCERNED DEPENDING ON HOW YOU PUT THE DEFINITION I GUESS I WAS CONCERNED BECAUSE WELL IT WOULD BE LIKE ME WALKING UP TO YOU AND TELLING YOU SOMEBODY HAD STOLE MY CAR EVEN THOUGH WE RE NOT FRIENDS OR ANYTHING YOU WOULD STILL BE CONCERNED THAT SOMEBODY STOLE MY CAR OR AT LEAST I HOPE YOU WOULD TO THAT DEGREE I WAS CONCERNED DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BY MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU STRIKE THAT AT THAT TIME WHO OR WHAT ENTITY WITHIN SCIENTOLOGY WOULD HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING LEGAL ACTION WITH REGARD TO THE BUILDING IF SUCH WERE TO BE UNDERTAKEN MR HERTZBERG BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAD YESTERDAY WITH A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS WITH WOULD HAVE BEEN IF YOU WANT TO ASK HIM WHETHER SOMEBODY DID TAKE RESPONSIBILITY IF HE KNOWS THAT MAKES SOME SENSE NOW YOU RE ASKING HIM TO SPECULATE MS PLEVIN I M NOT ASKING HIM TO SPECULATE MR HERTZBERG AND THERE S ALSO BY MS PLEVIN Q WAS THERE AN ORGANIZATION OR ENTITY IN SCIENTOLOGY AT THAT TIME CHARGED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF LOOKING AFTER THAT TYPE OF INTEREST SUCH AS FILING AN ACTION TO RECOVER POSSESSION AND TITLE OF THE BUILDING A I CAN GUESS I WOULD GUESS IF HE WAS THE MISSION OF RIVERSIDE I GUESS THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY MISSION OF RIVERSIDE IS THAT WHAT YOU RE ASKING ME Q WELL I DON T WANT YOU TO GUESS A OKAY Q AT SOME POINT YOU BECAME AWARE THAT MR CORYDON HAD FILED A LAWSUIT A YES Q TELL ME WHAT PRECISELY DID YOU BECOME AWARE OF A WHAT DID I BECOME AWARE OF Q UH HUH ANYTHING MORE DETAILED THAN THAT A GENERALLY THERE WAS AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THE BUILDING THE OWNERSHIP OF THE BUILDING WHERE HE WANTED TO KEEP IT THAT S ABOUT IT Q AND IT S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT HE COMMENCED THAT LAWSUIT A ISN T THAT WHAT IT WAS I KNEW THERE WAS A DISPUTE ABOUT THE BUILDING Q BUT YOU A I THOUGHT IT WAS BENT S LAWSUIT Q IF YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION I LL TELL YOU MR HERTZBERG HE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION MR DRESCHER OBJECTION THE WITNESS OKAY MR HERTZBERG HE TESTIFIED THAT THAT WAS HIS UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FIRST SUIT WAS BROUGHT BY MR CORYDON MS PLEVIN OKAY Q WHAT WAS THE NEXT CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH MS AZANARAN IN CONNECTION WITH OR RELATING TO MR CORYDON WITH THE SAME CAVEATS AS BEFORE THAT WE RE NOT NECESSARILY DEALING IN SEQUENCE A OKAY WHAT YEAR IS THIS NOW ABOUT 1983 Q YES A IS THAT GENERALLY WHERE WE ARE Q EARLY 83 HOLD THERE FOR A MOMENT A OKAY Q AS TO THIS PARTICULAR CONVERSATION A OKAY Q WHERE MS AZANARAN WAS RELATING THAT THERE WAS SOME LEGAL THINGS HAPPENING A WELL I DIDN T WAIT I DON T REMEMBER SOME LEGAL THINGS HAPPENING THAT WASN T WHAT I SAID Q CORRECT WHERE MR CORYDON HAD SEVERED TIES AND THERE WAS AN ISSUE ABOUT THE BUILDING IN SOME RESPECT THAT HE HAD A OKAY AS I STATED IT AS LONG AS WE RE Q AS YOU STATED IT A OKAY Q THAT TOOK PLACE IN LOS ANGELES YOU WEREN T EXACTLY SURE WHERE DO YOU KNOW A NO I DIDN T SAY THAT MR HELLER THAT S NOT THE TESTIMONY THE WITNESS I DIDN T SAY THAT I SAID IT WAS GILMAN OR LOS ANGELES MS PLEVIN OKAY Q AND I A AND I SPECIFICALLY SAID THE CITY TOO I MEAN IT COULD HAVE BEEN OVER DINNER THE POINT IS THAT THE WHOLE POINT IS I REMEMBER HER TELLING ME ABOUT THIS I COULDN T TELL YOU HOW LONG AFTERWARDS IT WAS Q OKAY A I JUST KNOW THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS ABOUT Q IS THIS THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO THAT YOU THINK PERHAPS MR MARLOWE WAS PRESENT MR HERTZBERG NO THE WITNESS NO I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT WAS THE EARLIER ONE BY MS PLEVIN Q AS TO THIS CONVERSATION DO YOU RECALL IF THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE PRESENT A I D HAVE TO GUESS MR HERTZBERG DON T GUESS MS PLEVIN OKAY NOW LET S MOVE FORWARD THE WITNESS OKAY BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT WAS THE NEXT CONVERSATION TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION IN SEQUENCE BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN SEQUENCE IN WHICH THE NAME OF MR CORYDON FIGURED A LET ME ASK HIM SOMETHING ATTORNEY CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD THE WITNESS THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHERS I CAN THINK OF BUT I DON T KNOW THE EXACT DATES MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS OKAY MS PLEVIN THAT S FINE THE WITNESS I CAN GENERALLY PLACE THEM BY INCIDENT FOR YOU MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS AND I DON T THAT S WHY I M TRYING TO THINK IS THIS 1983 OR 1984 MS PLEVIN LET S DO THEM BY INCIDENT OR HOWEVER YOU CAN REMEMBER THE WITNESS GENERALLY I CAN MERGE A BUNCH OF THEM MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS THIS ISN T ALL OF THEM BUT A BUNCH OF THEM WOULD BE PRIOR TO ANY EVENT A SCIENTOLOGY EVENT THAT WAS BEING HELD WHERE VICKI WAS PRESENT MS PLEVIN I M SORRY I DON T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT THE WITNESS DO YOU KNOW WHAT A SCIENTOLOGY EVENT IS MS PLEVIN YES Q BUT YOU SAID ANY OF THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN PRIOR TO AN EVENT A RIGHT THE CONVERSATIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN PRIOR TO THAT EVENT ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE IN THAT TIME FRAME A DAY OR TWO BEFOREHAND OR EVEN THE SAME DAY Q OKAY A ALL RIGHT Q ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC EVENT A ANY THAT VICKI WAS AT Q ALL RIGHT A IS THAT CLEAR Q LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND A OKAY Q YOU HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH MISS AZANARAN YOU CAN T PUT THEM EXACTLY IN ORDER A RIGHT Q BUT IT S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME BUT PRIOR TO A SCIENTOLOGY EVENT A NO EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN IS SHE SPEAKING I HEARD HER NOT THAT THAT WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT BENT WHERE THE NAME BENT CORYDON CAME UP WOULD HAVE BEEN PRIOR TO ONE OF THOSE EVENTS AND MANY OF THEM IS THAT CLEAR Q NO I M NOT SURE WHETHER YOU RE TALKING ABOUT MS AZANARAN TALKING ABOUT MR CORYDON AT THE EVENT A NO I M NOT Q OKAY A I DON T KNOW THAT MAYBE SHE DID OR MAYBE SHE DIDN T THAT S NOT WHAT I M TALKING ABOUT I M TALKING ABOUT HER JUST SPEAKING NOT A CONVERSATION NOT A TWO WAY COMMUNICATION Q OKAY A ALL RIGHT Q BUT SPEAKING IN A I LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE Q OKAY A VICKI AZANARAN USED TO SPEAK AT MANY OF THESE PUBLIC EVENTS AND SHE WOULD OFTEN TALK ABOUT SQUIRRELS AS A MATTER OF FACT SHE S THE ONLY PERSON I KNOW OF WHO EVER SPOKE ABOUT SQUIRRELS I DON T BELIEVE ANYBODY ELSE EVER DID BEFORE THAT DURING THAT OR AFTER THAT BEFORE THAT YOU KNOW THERE WOULD BE A GENERAL TYPE OF SCHEDULE FOR THE EVENT AND IT WOULD BE DISCUSSED YOU KNOW JUST GENERALLY THESE CONVERSATIONS WERE JUST VICKI TALKING ABOUT SQUIRRELS AND HER DETEST FOR THEM AND BENT S NAME WOULD COME UP FROM TIME TO TIME ABOUT AN EXAMPLE OF CRIMINAL SQUIRRELS HIS ALONG WITH I GUESS DAVID MAYO AS A SQUIRREL SHE HAD A HEAVY DISTASTE I DON T KNOW DOES THAT DESCRIBE IT FOR YOU Q YES I THINK SO A OKAY Q WHO ELSE WAS PRESENT AT ANY ONE OF THESE PARTICULAR CONVERSATIONS TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION A NUMEROUS PEOPLE COULD HAVE BEEN IT WAS JUST IT WASN T ANYTHING FORMAL I MEAN IT S JUST YOU RE THERE YOU KNOW IT WAS JUST LIKE WANDERING AROUND YOU KNOW THE EVENT S ABOUT TO START YOU KNOW JUST PEOPLE WERE AROUND SO WHOEVER WAS AROUND AT THOSE EVENTS MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD IT Q WERE THESE CONVERSATIONS WHERE THESE OTHER EVENTS WERE BEING PLANNED OR WERE THESE CONVERSATIONS WHERE PEOPLE WERE GETTING TOGETHER SORT OF LIKE BACK STAGE OR BEFORE THE EVENT TOOK PLACE A OKAY YEAH JUST SO WE RE CLEAR OF WHEN AN EVENT IS AN EVENT IS WHEN VARIOUS SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK TO OTHER SCIENTOLOGISTS Q RIGHT A AND OFTEN THEY TAKE PLACE ON A DATE THAT S AN OFFICIAL DATE WITHIN SCIENTOLOGY OKAY Q RIGHT A SOMETIMES THEY WOULD BE BACK STAGE OR SOMETIMES ON THE WAY IN AN AIRPLANE SOMETIMES WE WOULD GET TOGETHER BEFORE WE WENT ON THE AIRPLANE TO THE EVENT AND DISCUSS THE AGENDA OF THE EVENT IS THAT CLEAR Q YES DO YOU RECALL A SPECIFIC INSTANCE WHERE YOU AND VICKI WERE ON A PLANE TOGETHER BEFORE AN EVENT AND DISCUSSED SUCH MATTERS A MEANING ABOUT BENT CORYDON Q YES A NO Q OR IN WHICH THE NAME BENT CORYDON CAME UP A NO I DON T Q DO YOU RECALL ANY ONE OF THESE SPECIFIC EVENTS A YES Q OKAY A THERE WAS ONE EVENT AND I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 19 I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 1984 Q WHAT WAS THAT A NEAR THE END OF THE YEAR Q UH HUH A I REMEMBER VICKI GIVING A VERY SERIOUS SPEECH ON THE SUBJECT OF FENCESITTERS AND GETTING OFF THE FENCE IT WAS POSSIBLY AT THAT ONE OR AT ANOTHER ONE INCLUDING THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS AND HOW THEY ALTER THE TECHNOLOGY AND HOW IT S DISGRACEFUL THAT THEY DO THIS Q WHAT WAS THAT A NUMEROUS TIMES Q WHAT WAS THE TITLE OF THAT FIRST EVENT WHERE FENCESITTERS WERE MENTIONED A I COULDN T TELL YOU WE DIDN T HAVE TITLES FOR THE EVENTS I DON T KNOW OF ANY TITLES FOR THE EVENTS Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT ORGANIZATION SPONSORED THE EVENT MR HERTZBERG IF ANY THE WITNESS NO BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT ONE A I DON T RECALL THAT Q SORRY A THAT S WHAT I MEAN NO I DON T RECALL Q OKAY MR HERTZBERG DISREGARD COUNSEL S COMMENT BY MS PLEVIN Q DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME 83 84 WHERE YOU HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS A UH HUH Q WITH MS AZANARAN A WELL ON EVENTS I MEAN ANY TIME BEFORE AN EVENT I WOULD TAKE THAT UP TO CONVERSATIONS WITH HER BEFORE AN EVENT WOULD BE UP THROUGH 1986 Q OKAY A OKAY Q WE LL COME BACK TO THAT ANOTHER WAY THE NEXT CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD IN WHICH THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION WITH MS AZANARAN REGARDING BENT CORYDON OR IN WHICH HIS NAME CAME UP TO THE BEST OF YOUR MEMORY MR LIEBERMAN BY THE NEXT I TAKE IT YOU MEAN OTHER THAN THE SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS THAT HE SAID MS PLEVIN YES MR LIEBERMAN WENT ON THROUGH 1986 THE WITNESS JUST SO WE RE CLEAR ON THAT I BELIEVE THEY WENT ON THROUGH THE 1980 S JUST TO MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR VICKI DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD RECORD READ THE WITNESS VICKI AZANARAN WOULD BE THE ONE WHO WOULD SHE WOULD MENTION IT I MEAN IT WASN T A HOT SUBJECT OF INTEREST PARTICULARLY YOU KNOW IT WASN T A HIGH TOPIC OF CONVERSATION I MEAN THERE WERE TIMES MAYBE WHEN BENT S NAME WAS MENTIONED BUT IT WAS THE GENERAL SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS SHE HAD A VERY HIGH INTEREST IN THAT WHICH I DON T KNOW I GUESS THE CONVERSATIONS WOULD BE SOMEWHAT SHORT BECAUSE THEY WEREN T A COMMON TOPIC THAT EVERYONE WOULD SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT MS PLEVIN OKAY THE WITNESS JUST SO I M CLEAR MS PLEVIN OKAY Q DOES THAT EXHAUST ESSENTIALLY THE NATURE OF YOUR COMMUNICATIONS WITH MS AZANARAN IN WHICH THE SUBJECT OF MR CORYDON AROSE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER MR HERTZBERG YOU MEAN EXHAUST HIS PRESENT RECOLLECTION MS PLEVIN HIS PRESENT RECOLLECTION THE WITNESS NO IT DOESN T MS PLEVIN OKAY Q TELL ME ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT ONE THAT YOU HAVEN T MENTIONED SO FAR A I REMEMBER THAT VICKI AZANARAN TOLD ME THAT BENT CORYDON WENT TO THE GILMAN HOT SPRINGS PROPERTY Q I DON T UNDERSTAND THAT HE VISITED THERE DO YOU RECALL WHAT SHE SAID A YES I DO Q OKAY A GENERALLY THAT BENT CAME TO THE PROPERTY AND THAT HE WAS AT THE ENTRYWAY ATTEMPTING TO HARASS THE SECURITY PERSONNEL AND THE STAFF AT THE BASE AND THAT HE HAD COME THERE JUST FOR THE PURPOSES OF HARASSMENT I THINK HE STOPPED HIS CAR AND HE WAS THERE UTTERLY TO HARASS AND WHAT SHE WAS COMMENTING ON WAS THAT SHE SAID IT S JUST SO OUTRAGEOUS WHAT HE S DOING BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND SHE SAID BENT CLAIMS ALL THESE BAD THINGS ARE HIS WORRIES ABOUT THE CHURCH AND HERE HE COMES JUST TO CAUSE TROUBLE AND THE GUY IS OBVIOUSLY JUST A TROUBLEMAKER AND IT S SO RIDICULOUS WHAT HE S DONE I BELIEVE SHE TOLD ME THAT THE SECURITY OR THE POLICE CAME AND HAD THE SECURITY GUARD ARREST BENT AND THAT TYPICAL OF BENT S CHILDISH BEHAVIOR IS THAT HE IN TURN ARRESTED THE SECURITY GUARD AT THE PROPERTY WHICH IS PRIVATE PROPERTY THAT HE CAME TO HARASS EVERYBODY Q THAT BENT ARRESTED A SECURITY GUARD A YES I THINK SHE SAID IN TURN THAT HE DID A CITIZEN S ARREST Q CAN YOU PLACE THIS ANY MORE CLEARLY IN TIME MR HERTZBERG DON T GUESS MS PLEVIN DON T GUESS THE WITNESS OKAY NO BY MS PLEVIN Q DO YOU RECALL IF THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE PRESENT MR HERTZBERG YOU MEAN WHEN SHE SPOKE TO MR MISCAVIGE ABOUT THIS MS PLEVIN YES THANK YOU THE WITNESS I D HAVE TO GUESS BY MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH MS STRIKE THAT DID THE SUBJECT OF BENT CORYDON EVER COME UP AT ANY MEETINGS THAT YOU HAD WITH MS AZANARAN AND OTHERS MR HERTZBERG WELL I THOUGHT WE VE BEEN MS PLEVIN AT ANY TIME MR HERTZBERG I THOUGHT THAT THAT S WHAT WE VE BEEN GOING INTO IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL FOR THE LAST HOUR AND A HALF MR HELLER YEAH MR HERTZBERG ISN T THAT COMPREHENDED BY ALL OF YOUR PRIOR QUESTIONS MS PLEVIN NOT EXACTLY I THINK MOSTLY THE PRIOR DISCUSSIONS WERE WITH REGARD TO TWO WAY COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MR MISCAVIGE AND MS AZANARAN WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ANOTHER PERSON BEING PRESENT I M NOW ASKING WHETHER OR NOT ANY OF THESE CONVERSATIONS TOOK PLACE IN THE CONTEXT OF A MEETING WITH OTHER PEOPLE MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT YOU RE ASKING ABOUT ANY OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HE S DESCRIBED HERETOFORE MS PLEVIN YES MR LIEBERMAN I JUST WANT TO OBJECT TO THE CHARACTERIZATION AS TWO WAY COMMUNICATIONS I HAVEN T HEARD ANY TESTIMONY OR VERY MUCH TESTIMONY WITH RESPECT TO THESE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE TWO WAY I VE HEARD A LOT OF TESTIMONY AS TO WHAT MS AZANARAN SAID MR HELLER I WOULD OBJECT ON ASKED AND ANSWERED AS WELL BASICALLY I THINK ON EACH OF THESE CONVERSATIONS YOU VE ASKED HIM WAS THERE SOMEONE ELSE THERE THEN YOU VE ASKED ABOUT WHETHER THERE WAS A MEETING OR NOT HE S ASKED YOU TO DEFINE THE TERM MEETING MR HERTZBERG LET ME SEE IF I YOU CAN ASK IT ANY WAY YOU WANT TO BUT LET ME SEE IF I CAN CLARIFY IT SO WE CAN MOVE ON I BELIEVE MISS PLEVIN WANTS TO KNOW WHETHER IN ANY OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT VICKI AZANARAN HAD WITH YOU AND THAT YOU VE DESCRIBED IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF A MEETING WITH OTHER PEOPLE THE WITNESS OKAY MR HERTZBERG IS THE ANSWER NO THE WITNESS NO BY MS PLEVIN Q DID YOU EVER HAVE WERE YOU EVER PRESENT AT ANY MEETINGS WITH MS AZANARAN AT WHICH THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS WAS DISCUSSED A WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS WAS DISCUSSED I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY DISCUSSED AND THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS Q WHAT TO DO ABOUT SQUIRRELS MR HERTZBERG YOU CAN ANSWER THAT THE WITNESS OH I MISSED THE QUESTION I M SORRY WHAT DID YOU SAY BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT TO DO ABOUT SQUIRRELS A WHAT TO DO ABOUT SQUIRRELS Q YES A YES Q DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS A 1984 OR 1985 Q AND WHERE WAS IT WHERE DID THIS TAKE PLACE A I BELIEVE AT THE COMPLEX I THINK AT THE COMPLEX Q IN LOS ANGELES A YES Q DO YOU RECALL WHO ELSE WAS PRESENT ATTORNEY CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD THE WITNESS I M NOT SURE IF THIS IS ALL BUT I THINK JESSE PRINCE AND RICK AZANARAN WERE ALSO PRESENT BY MS PLEVIN Q WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THE MEETING A OKAY JUST TO DEFINE MEETING I M DEFINING MEETING AS ANY GROUP OF TWO OR MORE PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE IN CONVERSATION THAT WASN T AN OFFICIAL PREARRANGED MEETING AS A MATTER OF FACT IN THIS INSTANCE I HAD JUST DROPPED BY HER OFFICE BECAUSE I WAS IN LOS ANGELES YOU KNOW HOW RE YOU DOING STEP IN SAY HI Q THIS TOOK PLACE AT HER OFFICE A YES Q OKAY AND YOU CAME BY HER OFFICE AND JESSE PRINCE AND RICK AZANARAN WERE PRESENT IN HER OFFICE AT THAT TIME A OR AROUND THE OFFICE BUT THE WAY THE OFFICE WAS SET UP I MEAN YOU D WALK THROUGH AN OFFICE INTO AN OFFICE AND ACTUALLY DOWN A HALLWAY SO AT ANY RATE THEY ENDED UP THEY DID END UP GATHERING IN THERE I M NOT EXACTLY SURE ABOUT RICK AZANARAN I THINK I LL GIVE IT A 90 PERCENT THAT JESSE WAS THERE I THINK RICK WAS TOO POSSIBLY BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT RING A BELL Q TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CONVERSATION REGARDING SQUIRRELS A THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CONVERSATION REGARDING SQUIRRELS WAS ATTORNEY CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD THE WITNESS OKAY THIS IS NOT NOW ABOUT I DON T BELIEVE BENT S NAME WAS MENTIONED MR HERTZBERG THAT S THE CONFUSION MR MISCAVIGE HAD MS PLEVIN I DIDN T ASK MR HERTZBERG I TOLD HIM I THOUGHT YOU WERE ASKING THE GENERAL QUESTION MS PLEVIN THAT S CORRECT THE WITNESS THE GENERAL THE TOPIC WAS ABOUT THE AAC AND THAT S THE ADVANCED ABILITY CENTER AND DAVID MAYO SQUIRREL GROUP BY MS PLEVIN Q AND WHAT DID YOU SAY TO MS AZANARAN TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION A I RESPONDED TO WHAT SHE SAID TO ME Q SHE INITIATED THE SUBJECT A YES Q WHAT DID SHE SAY A SHE TOLD ME THAT APPARENTLY SHE HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN OR KNEW ABOUT OR I DON T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT PART SHE HAD IN IT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING ATTENDING A BARBECUE THAT WAS HELD AT THE EVENT AT THE ADVANCED ABILITY CENTER AT SANTA BARBARA IN AN ATTEMPT TO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO I GUESS BRING THOSE PEOPLE TO THEIR SENSES IT WAS THE SUBJECT OF SCIENTOLOGISTS GOING THERE AND MEETING THESE SQUIRRELS WHO WERE ALTERING THE PACK AND PASSING IT OFF AS SCIENTOLOGY AND THAT THIS HAD SOMEHOW ESCALATED INTO A CONFRONTATION BY CONFRONTATION I MEAN ARGUING OR THAT S ABOUT WHAT I KNOW BUT IN ANY EVENT THAT THAT EVENT HAD THEN RESULTED IN SOME FORM OF RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST BOTH SIDES HER I M NOT SURE WHO EXACTLY AND THE AAC SHE THOUGHT THIS WAS SHE THOUGHT THAT WAS AN APPROPRIATE THING THAT THESE PEOPLE WENT TO THE AAC BARBECUE AND SHE GOT A KICK OUT OF IT IT WAS JUST CHILDISH I INFORMED HER THAT I THOUGHT THAT IF SHE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS OR HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT I THOUGHT SHE WAS A COMPLETE IDIOT THAT IN MY ESTIMATION SQUIRRELS WERE ABSOLUTE ZEROS I DON T KNOW WHY SHE EVEN PLACED ANY ATTENTION UNITS ON THESE PEOPLE THAT PER TECH ANY SQUIRREL GROUP WILL EAT ITSELF UP PERSONALLY WITHIN THREE YEARS THAT SQUIRRELS ABSOLUTELY DETEST THE SUBJECT OF GETTING OFF THEIR OVERTS OR WITHHOLDS AND STAYING CLEAN AND BECAUSE THEY ARE SUCH OUTISH CHARACTERS AND OF SUCH LOW MORAL CHARACTER THAT IF JUST LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES THEY ONE BY ONE WILL EAT EACH OTHER ALIVE PERSONALLY WITHIN THE SQUIRREL GROUP I TOLD HER THAT IT WAS MY OPINION THAT IF ANY OF THESE ACTIONS TOOK PLACE ALL THAT HE WAS DOING OR PARTICIPATING IN DOING WAS GIVING LIFE TO A LIFELESS ACTIVITY AND I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS SILLY I TOLD HER IT WAS MY OPINION THAT THESE PEOPLE WOULD JUST IF THERE WAS A SQUIRREL GROUP OR A GATHERING OF SQUIRRELS THAT IT WOULD IT S JUST A MATTER OF TIME AND THEY WILL BASICALLY FALL APART Q LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND YOU MR MISCAVIGE A OKAY Q SQUIRREL GROUPS BECAUSE OF A VARIETY OF FACTORS AS YOU MENTIONED WILL FALL APART WITHIN THREE YEARS AND TIME SHOULDN T BE WASTED ON THEM MR HELLER ARE YOU ASKING IF THAT S WHAT HE JUST TESTIFIED I M SORRY GO AHEAD MIKE MR HERTZBERG YEAH IS THAT A QUESTION THE WITNESS DO YOU MR HELLER WOULD YOU ASK THAT WELL HE S MR HERTZBERG I DON T UNDERSTAND THAT IN TERMS OF A QUESTION BY MS PLEVIN Q GIVEN YOUR TESTIMONY MR MISCAVIGE A YES Q STRIKE THAT YOU ARE AWARE THAT RTC FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE ADVANCED ABILITY CENTER ARE YOU NOT MR HERTZBERG WAIT DO YOU MEAN NOW TODAY IS HE AWARE MR DRESCHER WELL FIRST BEFORE WE GET TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THAT QUESTION CAN BE UNDERSTOOD TO THE EXTENT I UNDERSTAND IT I DON T KNOW THE RELEVANCE MR HERTZBERG I DON T UNDERSTAND THE RELEVANCE OF THIS MS PLEVIN I M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MR MISCAVIGE S COMMENTS MR DRESCHER LIKE YOU MR HERTZBERG THEY WEREN T COMMENTS FIRST OF ALL THEY WEREN T COMMENTS WHAT YOU ASKED WAS MR MISCAVIGE S P T PRESENT TIME RECOLLECTION BEST RECOLLECTION OF A OF REMARKS THAT HE MADE TO MS AZANARAN MS PLEVIN RIGHT MR HERTZBERG OKAY AND HE GAVE THEM TO YOU MS PLEVIN OKAY MR HERTZBERG NOW YOU KNOW YOU MAY HAVE A LEGITIMATE FOLLOW UP QUESTION BUT I PREFER THAT WE NOT REHASH WHAT HE JUST TOLD YOU BECAUSE THE RECORD SPEAKS FOR MS PLEVIN THE RECORD WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF MR HERTZBERG WHAT HIS RECOLLECTION IS AND I D PREFER THAT WE NOT HAVE AN ARGUMENTATIVE QUESTION MS PLEVIN I DO NOT INTEND TO MR HERTZBERG OKAY BY MS PLEVIN Q BASED ON YOUR TESTIMONY MR MISCAVIGE DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE A USEFUL ENDEAVOR TO FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST A SQUIRREL GROUP MR HELLER NO MR HERTZBERG THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE IRRELEVANT MR HELLER SPECULATIVE MR HERTZBERG SPECULATIVE AND IMMATERIAL MS PLEVIN ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER MR HERTZBERG YES I AM BY MS PLEVIN Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER ANY SUCH LAWSUITS HAVE BEEN FILED AGAINST THE ADVANCED ABILITY CENTER MR DRESCHER SAME OBJECTION MS PLEVIN STRIKE THAT Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER ANY LAWSUITS HAVE BEEN FILED AGAINST THE ADVANCED ABILITY CENTER IN WHICH RTC WAS A PLAINTIFF A YES Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THAT LAWSUIT STRIKE THAT ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ANY OF THE CLAIMS IN THAT LAWSUIT MR HERTZBERG BY WHOM MS PLEVIN BY RTC MR DRESCHER I M GOING TO CONTINUE MY RELEVANCE OBJECTION MR HELLER I LL JOIN MR HERTZBERG YOU MAY ANSWER IF YOU RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE CLAIMS ARE IN THE COMPLAINT THE WITNESS OR ANY OF THEM IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID MS PLEVIN YES THE WITNESS YES BY MS PLEVIN Q DO THOSE ARE YOU INVOLVED IN ANY WAY IN THE OVERSIGHT OF THE CONDUCT OF THAT LAWSUIT MR HERTZBERG I M NOT SURE MS PLEVIN ON BEHALF OF RTC MR HERTZBERG I M NOT SURE MR DRESCHER AT THIS POINT LET ME INTERPOSE THIS OBJECTION YOU VE ALREADY SERVED SUBPOENAS TODAY ON THIS WITNESS IN TWO LAWSUITS UNRELATED TO THIS ONE NOW YOU RE SITTING HERE PROBING WHAT THIS WITNESS KNOWS ABOUT STILL ANOTHER LAWSUIT THAT S UNRELATED MS PLEVIN I LL STRIKE THE QUESTION MR DRESCHER I DON T KNOW WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH THIS MS PLEVIN I LL STRIKE THE QUESTION Q WERE THERE ANY OTHER COMMUNICATIONS THAT YOU HAD WITH MS AZANARAN AT ANY TIME THAT RELATED TO MR CORYDON MR HERTZBERG OTHER THAN THE ONES HE S DESCRIBED ALREADY MS PLEVIN OF COURSE MR HERTZBERG ALL RIGHT THE WITNESS I BELIEVE SO MS PLEVIN OKAY Q COULD YOU TELL ME APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS A FOR THE RECORD I WISH YOU WOULDN T TALK WHILE I M ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS MR HERTZBERG THE RECORD WILL REFLECT YOUR OBSERVATION MS PLEVIN MY CLIENT WAS WHISPERING IN MY EAR WITHOUT BEING AUDIBLE EVEN TO ME I COULD HARDLY HAVE BEEN MR HERTZBERG MR MISCAVIGE INDICATES TO ME THAT HE S BEING DISTRACTED MS PLEVIN GIVEN THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH EVERYONE ELSE HERE HAS WHISPERED AMONGST EACH OTHER FOR TWO DAYS RUNNING MY CLIENT S WHISPERING ABOUT SIX WORDS IN MY EAR IS NOT DISTRACTING NOW COULD WE GO BACK TO THE QUESTION PLEASE I DID NOT INTEND TO INTERFERE WITH MR MISCAVIGE S THOUGHT PROCESSES MR HERTZBERG THAT S WHAT THREW HIM OFF MR HELLER YOU ASKED HIM ABOUT ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS HE SAID HE THOUGHT SO MS PLEVIN OKAY Q WOULD YOU PLEASE DESCRIBE THEM TO US A THIS CONVERSATION I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 1986 IN AN AIRPLANE EN ROUTE TO TORONTO CANADA Q WERE YOU SITTING WITH MS AZANARAN A AT TIMES Q AND WHAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THIS CONVERSATION A ON THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS IN GENERAL WAS THE SUBJECT OF THE CONVERSATION THAT SHE BROUGHT UP Q WAS THIS PRIOR TO THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY EVENT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCIENTOLOGISTS MR HERTZBERG YOU KNOW IF WE HAVE THE DATE I DON T KNOW WHAT THE RELEVANCE OF THIS IS I MEAN TO USE THAT AS FIXING IT DON T WE HAVE THE DATE ALREADY MS PLEVIN NO WE DON T MR HERTZBERG WE DON T WHY DON T YOU JUST ASK HIM WHAT THE DATE IS

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  • Documented anonymous letters by the Squirrel-Watcher - David Miscavige Go Home
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